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gjm comments on Are we failing the ideological Turing test in the case of ISIS? (a crazy ideas thread) - Less Wrong Discussion

-1 Post author: Val 09 January 2016 04:42PM

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Comment author: Val 12 January 2016 06:17:58PM 0 points [-]

that we should do things that would help make ISIS's ideology more dominant in the world

I think this is where you misunderstood me. I never claimed, nor do I believe that European politicians / European media promote that "we should help make ISIS's ideology more dominant". I was only talking about general mainstream Muslim culture which is promoted. And of course, the ideology of ISIS is very different from the mainstream Muslim culture, but I would guess that from a utilitarian point of view it might benefit ISIS if Europe had a mainstream Muslim culture rather than a non-Muslim culture.

Comment author: gjm 12 January 2016 06:33:34PM 2 points [-]

I was only talking about general mainstream Muslim culture which is promoted.

Well, again, if you are saying that "left-leaning political elites" are promoting Muslim culture or openly encouraging it to be promoted, then I still simply don't believe you.

I dare say it's true that ISIS would prefer a mainstream Muslim Europe to a mostly Christian and secular Europe, and that it would generally prefer a more-Muslim Europe to a less-Muslim Europe. (Though ... I wonder how true that is; they might actually prefer an aggressively anti-Muslim Europe with which they could have a glorious fight ending in the domination of ISIS-style Islam.) But a process whose best-case-for-ISIS outcome is a mainstream Muslim Europe in several decades (personally I think even that is a ludicrously paranoid scenario, but I hope we can at least agree that it's the most ISIS could reasonably hope for from those "left-leaning political elites") cannot possibly make it unnecessary for ISIS to act more drastically to spread their ideology.

Comment author: polymathwannabe 12 January 2016 06:36:13PM 1 point [-]

ISIS would prefer a mainstream Muslim Europe

No, the recruitment strategy of ISIS depends on Muslims not having a peaceful space in European culture.

Comment author: Lumifer 12 January 2016 06:54:21PM *  1 point [-]

they might actually prefer an aggressively anti-Muslim Europe with which they could have a glorious fight ending in the domination of ISIS-style Islam.

If you treat ISIS as a millennial cult, they expect an apocalyptic scenario where Europe/West are the bad guys with which they need to have an end-of-the-world battle. If the bad guys don't show up, ISIS will be very disappointed :-/