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Lumifer comments on The Valentine’s Day Gift That Saves Lives - Less Wrong Discussion
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Comments (77)
I would prefer LW not to be spammed by HuffPo-quality advertisement pieces for charity donations, even if it's for a charity many people here like.
Harsh, but this does have two HuffPo-like traits: first, he uses his opening line to make a point that's grossly misleading, and repackages his generic pitch for EA as something relevant to an upcoming holiday. "Hey, you know what's the most romantic thing to do? Turns out that it's the same thing we recommend doing all the time. What a coincidence!"
Second, his factoids about the psychology of generosity are as misleading as HuffPo-tier science reporting. Generally speaking, the psych/neuropsych studies I've read don't really support the conclusions that EAs seem to want them to, including those studies that they cite as evidence. Specifically speaking, in this case, the studies don't seem to indicate that charitable giving is special, broadly or vis-a-vis the activity that this post is contrasting them with. I.e., neither of the articles provide evidence that giving to charity has a particular advantage in making people feel good over other forms of generous behavior, including the conventional Valentine's Day one of giving something nice and romantic to someone you love. Indeed, most of the research I've seen on the subject indicates that a wide range of actions taken on behalf of others produce neurological rewards.
I'd find it very strange if actions toward other people you didn't know produced greater psychological rewards than those you knew and loved, and I've yet to see any evidence that it's true. Anecdotally, it seems vastly more likely that the opposite is true: that if you're trying to maximize your own happiness, being generous to the people you love is the best way to push this psychological button.
But the question here is not whether giving to charity beats acting romantic to one's partner (Gleb and his wife are obviously being romantic to each other; indeed, they're also choosing to enjoy an experience which will likely make them happier in the long term - dining in a nice cozy restaurant), but whether it's better than buying expensive stuff for themselves. And the evidence seems to be that getting a costly material gift raises the giver's status in your mind, but doesn't really make you happier. So why not replace this part with charitable giving?
This is all so bass-ackward. Your premise seems to be that the Valentine Day is all about spending money, so if you're spending money anyway why not spend it on charity. However "buying expensive stuff" is not a terminal goal, but merely instrumental -- replacing it with something that does not achieve the same terminal goal is counterproductive.
Valentine Day is about expressing very personal attention to and care for another person. It is NOT about yourself and demonstrating your admirable qualities like willingness to give money to charity. If you think it's just an opportunity to status-signal, you're doing it wrong.
Sure, there are lots of people who take the easy way and substitute "took time and effort to find/make/pick" with "expensive". But these are precisely the kind of people who will look at a suggestion to replace the flowers/diamonds/etc. with condoms for Africans with incredulity. These are not your target audience.
Besides, if a S-RCN (Self-Respecting Conventional Neurotypical) girl gets "I gave some condoms to Africans as a present to you" for Valentine Day, her immediate first instinct would be to kick the giver in the yarbles. If she's quick-thinking, though, she'll realize he doesn't have any yarbles, so she'll just give up and leave.
The two solutions to this situation are (a) pick something other than conventional neurotypical; (b) don't be a bloody idiot.
So, remember this discussion next time LW guys complain about having trouble getting girls... X-D
I don't think that's the question. You aren't constrained to the options of an "expensive" gift (carrying the connotation of low emotional resonance) or a charitable donation. You can also spend that $50 on another nice experience with your loved one, or you can buy a cool accessory that goes with their sense of style, or you can buy a beautifully bound journal and fill it with thoughts you have about them over the course of months, etc. You can do a lot of things. I'd guess that around 100% of people I know and >99.5% of genpop would find one or all of those options more romantic than a charitable donation, and that it would make them happier. I have no churlish objection to this particular couple finding a donation to be the most meaningful possible gift. But the overwhelming majority of people won't, so presenting this as the option that'll make them happiest is likely to fall flat.
I haven't seen this evidence--can you link me? Nothing in the post, or linked in anything linked in the post, seems to show that. Does this evidence apply to romantic partners, and does it include "personalized" gifts? (I.e., those the giver put a lot of thought into, and which were selected specifically for a partner they know very well.) I would be quite surprised if that were true. I would be completely unsurprised if it was true of arbitrary material gifts, but I think the takeaway there is "don't buy your wife a washing machine for your first anniversary" rather than "don't buy your wife a gift."
The effect of gift-giving on the giver isn't to be neglected, either. Doing something nice for a loved one makes most people feel particularly good about themselves. There's also some indication that such actions make most people feel more connected with and devoted to the recipient. (Essentially an extended form of the Ben Franklin effect,)
Sure, but how many people do that? Let's face it, most people are lazy. So they celebrate V-Day by buying wasteful $#!+ for each other. Charitable gifts could be less romantic than well-chosen experiences, and still beat $#!+ by a huge margin.
If the argument being put forward is that it's not good to give terrible romantic gifts (i.e., those that make neither the giver nor the receiver happy), and that, as such, any nonnegative alternative activities--including charitable gifts-- might be better, I find that very difficult to disagree with. Personally, I think that the correct response to that situation is to get better at giving gifts, though.
Wow. A Grinchier grinch than me.
I'm a big UnFan of HuffPo. Not really into the EA business.
But I didn't find this propaganda. I found this somebody sharing something in his life that he found moving in his relationship.
You could read this and generalize it to simply doing something to live your shared values with your partner. That's how I took it. I thought it was sweet, if not exactly my cup of tea.
So there, Mr. Grinchy old Grinch.
If this were his first post along these lines, maybe possibly. Unfortunately, this post is but one amongst many and they all stink the same.