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RevPitkin comments on Religious and Rational? - Less Wrong Discussion

3 Post author: Gleb_Tsipursky 09 February 2016 08:12PM

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Comment author: buybuydandavis 10 February 2016 12:27:33AM *  9 points [-]

Secular people start with the faith that they can trust their sensory experience. Religious people start with conceptions of the divine. Yet, after each starting point, both seek to proceed in a rational logical manner.

This is one of the false moves of Christian apologetics. Religious people start with faith in their sensory experience as well. Fetuses don't "start with conceptions of the divine", and there is no concept of "the bible" or "the koran" to have faith in without faith in sensory experience.

Religious folks start from sensory experience as well, but at some point they start overriding sensory experience and the methodology they use with it with religious commitments. I suppose they're not alone in that, and not the worst. "There is a man in the sky who will punish/reward me depending on whether I obey him" is only wrong, and not "not even wrong".

Having said that, in my experience Christians are more rational than most where their "concepts of the divine" do not intrude, and this fellow is doing "God's work" in trying to bring a conscious commitment to rationality to Christians.

Comment author: RevPitkin 10 February 2016 09:03:10PM 0 points [-]

You know I have actually not read that in Christian apologetics. I believe its there but in the context of this article it came out of discussion with Gleb.

Comment author: buybuydandavis 11 February 2016 01:24:05AM 4 points [-]

That? I don't know what you're referring to.

I'll assume the quote I included.

It's part of popular christian apologetics here in the US.

For example, if you watch the Hitchens vs. Theist debates for Hitchens' book tour of 'God is not Great', one of the standard theistic moves was "you start from faith in your unjustified foundations, and we start from ours". Douglas Wilson was a good example of that.