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Dagon comments on Open thread, Mar. 14 - Mar. 20, 2016 - Less Wrong Discussion
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Perhaps I do misunderstand him. I took his "massive difference" comparison to mean that he doesn't believe charity is sufficient, and he would prefer welfare to be considered a right.
In the long term, the government is just a conduit - it matches and enforces transfers, it doesn't generate anything itself. The case of states that can sell resources is perhaps an exception for some time periods, but doesn't generalize in the way most people think of rights independent of local or temporal situations.
In any case, a right to support directly requires SOMEONE to provide that support, doesn't it? If everyone is allowed to choose not to provide that support, the suffering must be accepted.
That what I meant , butit it has nothing to with things that don't yet exist.
So, can we just get rid of it, then? :-/ I don't think we should take a detour into this area, but, let's say, a claim that government does not create any economic value would be... controversial.
Yes, correct. All rights come as pairs of right and duty. Whatever is someone's right is someone else's duty.
I'm still confused about "rights over things that don't exist yet" and "rights that make it easy to ignore".
Asserting a right to eat is not just a statement about current food supply ownership or access. It's saying that, if food is later created, the right applies to that too. Conversely, if I have the right not to grow food or not to give it to someone else, I am allowed to ignore their pain.
Don't most rights work this way? I think it's just the default.
I don't quite understand the "allowed to ignore" part. What is the alternative, Clockwork Orange-style therapy?
"I am allowed to X" in this context means "X is not worthy of moral condemnation, and forcibly stopping X is worthy of moral condemnation".
Moral condemnation or application of force are the common responses.