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Dagon comments on Open thread, Mar. 14 - Mar. 20, 2016 - Less Wrong Discussion

3 Post author: MrMind 14 March 2016 08:02AM

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Comment author: Brillyant 16 March 2016 03:25:52AM *  0 points [-]

It makes a lot of sense that the nature of questions regarding the "beginning" of the universe is nonsensical and anthropocentric, but it still feels like a cheap response that misses the crux of the issue. It feels like "science will fill in that gap eventually" and we ought to trust that will be so.

Matter exists. And there are physical laws in the universe that exist. I accept, despite my lack of imagination and fancy scientific book learning, that this is basically enough to deterministically allow intelligent live beings like you and I to be corresponding via our internet-ed magical picture boxes. Given enough time, just gravity and matter gets us to here—to all the apparent complexity of the universe. I buy that.

But whether the universe is eternal, or time is circular, or we came from another universe, or we are in a simulation, or whatever other strange non-intuitive thing may be true in regard to the ultimate origins of everything, there is still this pesky fact that we are here. And everything else is here. There is existence where it certainly seems there just as easily could be non-existence.

Again, I really do recognize the silly anthropocentric nature of questions about matters like these. I think you are ultimately right that the questions are non-sensical.

But, to my original question, it seems a simple agnostic-ish deism is a fairly reasonable position given the infantile state of our current understanding of ultimate origins. I mean, if you're correct, we don't even know that we are asking questions that make sense about how things exist...then how can we rule out something like a powerful, intelligent creative entity (that has nothing to with any revealed religion)?

I'm not asking rhetorically. How do you rule it out?

Comment author: Dagon 16 March 2016 03:50:13PM *  0 points [-]

My disagreement isn't that it's implausible for such an entity to exist, but that it's extremely implausible for it to matter in any decision or experience I anticipate. The chain of unsupported leaps from "I perceive all this stuff and I don't know why" to "some powerful entitiy created it all, and I understand their desires and want to behave in ways that please or manipulate them" is more than I can follow.

Comment author: Lumifer 16 March 2016 04:06:43PM 0 points [-]

and I understand their desires and want to behave in ways that please or manipulate them

The OP is talking about deism.

Comment author: Dagon 17 March 2016 05:33:09AM 0 points [-]

Right. And regardless of what's written about the rest of the cluster of religious belief regarding souls, creator-pleasing morality, etc., I have yet to actually meet anyone who assigns a high probability of a conscious thinking Creator without also bringing the rest of it in.

Comment author: Lumifer 17 March 2016 02:57:51PM 1 point [-]

I have yet to actually meet anyone...

Have you met anyone who self-identifies as a deist?

Comment author: Brillyant 16 March 2016 03:54:43PM 0 points [-]

The chain of unsupported leaps from "I perceive all this stuff and I don't know why" to "some powerful entitiy created it all, and I understand their desires and want to behave in ways that please or manipulate them" is more than I can follow.

Why is the bold necessary, or necessarily relevant? Are you referencing revealed religion?