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gjm comments on Open Thread May 30 - June 5, 2016 - Less Wrong Discussion

3 Post author: Elo 30 May 2016 04:51AM

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Comment author: Lumifer 02 June 2016 04:15:22PM *  -1 points [-]

"Creationism" is universally[1] understood to mean the idea that the world was created by a god, and that term "god" has a whole lot of other baggage

If you drag in the baggage, there will be baggage. If you don't, there won't. A lot of smart people thought for a long time about what it means for the world to have been created.

"Simulation" is universally[2] understood to mean the idea that our world's existence is as a pattern of information inside something very computer-like.

Simulation universally[0] means that our universe is part of a larger system outside of it which works by different rules; and that some entity constructed our world and by that virtue has supernatural powers over it.

[0] Near enough.

They are both special cases of the same general idea (that our universe is a thing that has been made by someone else). But no, they are not the same idea.

They are that same general idea.

Comment author: gjm 02 June 2016 05:19:36PM -1 points [-]

If you drag in the baggage [...] If you don't [...]

The baggage is part of the meaning of the word. Look it up in a good dictionary. Look at how it's actually used.

They are that same general idea

I'm not sure what you mean by that. If you mean that you agree that they're different special cases of a single general idea, then I think we are in agreement (and I just don't understand why you're so determined to call them "the same" when they are in fact not the same). But if you mean that they are not merely different special cases, but that each in fact has the exact same meaning as (what I'm claiming to be) the more general idea, I think that's flatly wrong.

(The best answer I can see: our universe is being simulated by the Mind of God. No, says the traditionalist Christian, our universe is not a part of God, it is not a mere mental creation; it is an actual separate thing.)

Suppose traditionalist Christians are right in every detail. Then creationism is correct; if creationism and simulationism are the same thing, then simulationism must also be correct. In that case, please tell me what is simulating our universe.

Suppose our universe was made by a hacker in another universe who set his unthinkably powerful computer simulating universes with random simple-ish physical laws and has since then completely forgotten the program is even running. Then simulationism is correct; if creationism and simulationism are the same thing, then creationism must also be correct. In that case, please tell me what being plays the role of God in this scenario.

(The best answer I can see: the hacker is God. But he doesn't even know our universe exists and certainly has no idea what's going on within it. In principle he could discover the program running on his computer, find a way of inspecting its state, and figure out what that means in terms of in-universe events; but as it happens he has nowhere near the brainpower or the patience for that. Neither is he supremely wise or good or anything of the sort. He just happens to have a really fast computer.)

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