I find it is more likely that the times it degenerates into a fight is due to the lack of ability on one of the debaters. The alternative is to believe that people like ourselves are somehow special. It is anecdotal but I used to be incredibly stubborn until i met some good teachers and mentors. Now i think the burden of proof lies on the claim that, despite our apparent similarities, a large portion of humans are incapable of being reasoned with no matter how good the teacher or delivery. Of course i expect some people physically cannot reason due to brain damage or whatever. But these are a far smaller group than what i imagine you are suggesting.
I would claim their main goal is not fitting in but achieving happiness which they do by fitting in (albeit this may not be the most optimum path). And i claim this is your goal as well. If you can accept that premise, we again have to ask if you are special in some way for valuing the truth so highly? Do you not aim to be happy? I think you and i also have the same core goal we just realize that its easier to navigate to happiness with a map that closely matches reality. Everybody benefits from a good map. That is why a good teacher can convert bull headed people like i used to be by starting with providing tools for mapping reality such education in fallacies and biases. When packaged in an easy to digest manner, tools that help improve reality maps are so useful that very few will reject them just like very few people reject how to add and subtract.
You seem to be proposing a simplistic theory of goals, much like the simplistic theory of goals that leads Eliezer to the mistaken conclusion that AI will want to take over the world.
In particular, happiness is not one unified thing that everyone is aiming at, that is the same for them and me. If I admit that I do what I do in order to be happy, then a big part of that happiness would be "knowing the truth," while for them, that would be only a small part, or no part at all (although perhaps "claiming to possess the truth" would be a pa...
I posted before about an open source decision making web site I am working on called WikiLogic. The site has a 2 minute explanatory animation if you are interested. I wont repeat myself but the tl;dr is that it will follow the Wikipedia model of allowing everyone to collaborate on a giant connected database of arguments where previously established claims can be used as supporting evidence for new claims.
The raw deduction element of it works fine and would be great in a perfect world where such a thing as absolute truths existed, however in reality we normally have to deal with claims that are just the most probable. My program allows opposing claims to be connected and then evidence to be gathered for each. The evidence will create a probability of it being correct and which ever is highest, gets marked as best answer. Principles such as Occams Razor are applied automatically as long list of claims used as evidence will be less likely as each claim will have its own likelihood which will dilute its strength.
However, my only qualification in this area is my passion and I am hitting a wall with some basic questions. I am not sure if this is the correct place to get help with these. If not, please direct me somewhere else and I will remove the post.
The arbitrarily chosen example claim I am working with is whether “Alexander the Great existed”. This has the useful properties of 1: an expected outcome (that he existed - although, perhaps my problem is that this is not the case!) and 2: it relies heavily on probability as there is little solid evidence.
One popular claim is that coins were minted with his face on them. I want to use Bayes to find how likely a face appearing on a coin is for someone who existed. As I understand it, there should be 4 combinations:
The first issue is that there are infinite people who never existed and did not have a coin made. If I narrow it to historic figures who turned out not to exist and did not have a coin made it becomes possible but also becomes subjective as to whether someone actually thought they existed. For example, did people believe the Minotaur existed?
Perhaps I should choose another filter instead of historic figure, like humans that existed. But picking and choosing the category is again so subjective. Someone may also argue that woman inequality back then was so great that the data should only look at men, as a woman’s chance of being portrayed on a coin was skewed in a way that isn’t applicable to men.
I hope i have successfully communicated the problem i am grappling with and what i want to use it for. If not, please ask for clarifications. A friend in academia suggested that this touches on a problem with Bayes priors that has not been settled. If that is the case, is there any suggested resources for a novice with limited free time, to start to explore the issue? References to books or other online resources or even somewhere else I should be posting this kind of question would all be gratefully received. Not to mention a direct answer in the comments!