Jocko Podcast

moridinamael

15 Jocko Podcast

6th Sep 2016

2 min read

15

I've recently been extracting extraordinary value from the Jocko Podcast.

Jocko Willink is a retired Navy SEAL commander, jiu-jitsu black belt, management consultant and, in my opinion, master rationalist. His podcast typically consists of detailed analysis of some book on military history or strategy followed by a hands-on Q&A session. Last week's episode (#38) was particularly good and if you want to just dive in, I would start there.

As a sales pitch, I'll briefly describe some of his recurring talking points:

Extreme ownership. Take ownership of all outcomes. If your superior gave you "bad orders", you should have challenged the orders or adapted them better to the situation; if your subordinates failed to carry out a task, then it is your own instructions to them that were insufficient. If the failure is entirely your own, admit your mistake and humbly open yourself to feedback. By taking on this attitude you become a better leader and through modeling you promote greater ownership throughout your organization. I don't think I have to point out the similarities between this and "Heroic Morality" we talk about around here.
Mental toughness and discipline. Jocko's language around this topic is particularly refreshing, speaking as someone who has spent too much time around "self help" literature, in which I would partly include Less Wrong. His ideas are not particularly new, but it is valuable to have an example of somebody who reliably executes on his the philosophy of "Decide to do it, then do it." If you find that you didn't do it, then you didn't truly decide to do it. In any case, your own choice or lack thereof is the only factor. "Discipline is freedom." If you adopt this habit as your reality, it become true.
Decentralized command. This refers specifically to his leadership philosophy. Every subordinate needs to truly understand the leader's intent in order to execute instructions in a creative and adaptable way. Individuals within a structure need to understand the high-level goals well enough to be able to act in a almost all situations without consulting their superiors. This tightens the OODA loop on an organizational level.
Leadership as manipulation. Perhaps the greatest surprise to me was the subtlety of Jocko's thinking about leadership, probably because I brought in many erroneous assumptions about the nature of a SEAL commander. Jocko talks constantly about using self-awareness, detachment from one's ideas, control of one's own emotions, awareness of how one is perceived, and perspective-taking of one's subordinates and superiors. He comes off more as HPMOR!Quirrell than as a "drill sergeant".

The Q&A sessions, in which he answers questions asked by his fans on Twitter, tend to be very valuable. It's one thing to read the bullet points above, nod your head and say, "That sounds good." It's another to have Jocko walk through the tactical implementation of this ideas in a wide variety of daily situations, ranging from parenting difficulties to office misunderstandings.

For a taste of Jocko, maybe start with his appearance on the Tim Ferriss podcast or the Sam Harris podcast.

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15 Jocko Podcast

by moridinamael

6th Sep 2016

2 min read

15

I've recently been extracting extraordinary value from the Jocko Podcast.

As a sales pitch, I'll briefly describe some of his recurring talking points:

Extreme ownership. Take ownership of all outcomes. If your superior gave you "bad orders", you should have challenged the orders or adapted them better to the situation; if your subordinates failed to carry out a task, then it is your own instructions to them that were insufficient. If the failure is entirely your own, admit your mistake and humbly open yourself to feedback. By taking on this attitude you become a better leader and through modeling you promote greater ownership throughout your organization. I don't think I have to point out the similarities between this and "Heroic Morality" we talk about around here.
Mental toughness and discipline. Jocko's language around this topic is particularly refreshing, speaking as someone who has spent too much time around "self help" literature, in which I would partly include Less Wrong. His ideas are not particularly new, but it is valuable to have an example of somebody who reliably executes on his the philosophy of "Decide to do it, then do it." If you find that you didn't do it, then you didn't truly decide to do it. In any case, your own choice or lack thereof is the only factor. "Discipline is freedom." If you adopt this habit as your reality, it become true.
Decentralized command. This refers specifically to his leadership philosophy. Every subordinate needs to truly understand the leader's intent in order to execute instructions in a creative and adaptable way. Individuals within a structure need to understand the high-level goals well enough to be able to act in a almost all situations without consulting their superiors. This tightens the OODA loop on an organizational level.
Leadership as manipulation. Perhaps the greatest surprise to me was the subtlety of Jocko's thinking about leadership, probably because I brought in many erroneous assumptions about the nature of a SEAL commander. Jocko talks constantly about using self-awareness, detachment from one's ideas, control of one's own emotions, awareness of how one is perceived, and perspective-taking of one's subordinates and superiors. He comes off more as HPMOR!Quirrell than as a "drill sergeant".

For a taste of Jocko, maybe start with his appearance on the Tim Ferriss podcast or the Sam Harris podcast.

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RainbowSpacedancer10y30

...it is valuable to have an example of somebody who reliably executes on his the philosophy of "Decide to do it, then do it." If you find that you didn't do it, then you didn't truly decide to do it. In any case, your own choice or lack thereof is the only factor. "Discipline is freedom." If you adopt this habit as your reality, it become true.

It's possible I'm getting to confused with the language here but I've struggled to apply this advice in my own life. I'll decide that I'm not going to snack at work anymore and then find myself snacking anyway once the time comes. It seems to reflect a naivete in regards to how willpower and habits work.

It sounds good and I've listened to 4 episodes now and Jocko doesn't seem to elaborate on how exactly this process is supposed to work. What is the difference between deciding and truly deciding? What is the habit of 'discipline is freedom' and how does one adopt it as their reality?

I come away from the podcast inspired for a few hours but with no lasting change.

Riothamus10y00

Here is a method I use to good effect:

1) Take a detailed look at the pros and cons of what you want to change. This is sometimes sufficient by itself - more than once I have realized I simply get nothing out what I'm doing, and the desire goes away by itself.

2) Find a substitution for those pros.

Alternatively, think about an example of when you decided to do something and then actually did it, and try to port the methods over. Personal example: I recently had a low-grade freakout over deciding to do a particular paperwork process that is famously slow and ... (read more)

1MrMind10y

I think too this is the main weak point. The distinction between 'discipline' and 'true discipline' is just semantics for 'willpower when it works and when it doesn't'.

3moridinamael10y

"Discipline is freedom" summarizes the attitude that if you have trained yourself to wake up early, stay on task, exercise regularly, etc., etc., then you now have the freedom to do a variety of things that you would not otherwise be able to do. By having the discipline to exercise, you now have the ability to freely use a more fit body, by waking up early, you have extra hours at your disposal, and so on. To address your first question, I think Jocko would probably say: "If you form an intention to do something, and you don't do it, then you are mentally weak. The first thing to do is then to decide not to be mentally weak." In abstruse lesswrongspeak, this would like something like: "It is most important to form a self-governing narrative of the form 'a mentally strong person would execute on their intentions regardless of transient impulses or mental resistance, and I commit with utmost resolution to being a mentally strong person'. Then you must continuously monitor your daily activities for adherence to this commitment and to this narrative-mentality." Ironically, the Less Wrong deconstructionist approach of breaking the self up into multiple agents and carefully finding a minimum-enthalpy path through wantspace is itself antithetical to forming such a "simplistic" self-governing narrative, even if possessing and maintaining such a narrative were more effective.

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