Stupid Questions February 2017

Erfeyah

This thread is for asking any questions that might seem obvious, tangential, silly or what-have-you. Don't be shy, everyone has holes in their knowledge, though the fewer and the smaller we can make them, the better.

Please be respectful of other people's admitting ignorance and don't mock them for it, as they're doing a noble thing.

To any future monthly posters of SQ threads, please remember to add the "stupid_questions" tag.

Please be respectful of other people's admitting ignorance and don't mock them for it, as they're doing a noble thing.

To any future monthly posters of SQ threads, please remember to add the "stupid_questions" tag.

How does a rational actor resolve the emperor's clothes?

Story link: http://www.andersen.sdu.dk/vaerk/hersholt/TheEmperorsNewClothes_e.html

Specifically, insert ourselves into every step of the process.

1) You're the emperor. Two tailors come to you saying they can make you a suit that cannot be seen by those that are stupid and/or unfit for their current position.

Answer to this, I think, is: You don't believe this magical stuff, see it for the scam that it is and tell them to bugger off.

2) You as the emperor, somehow agree to this. They take your measurements and start weaving, then start demanding all sorts of resources (cloth and silks).

Answer to this is probably: You give them this, because as the story goes, you really want fancy clothes. ... Besides, if you say no, they'll say they can't make clothes without cloth. Now what? It's not an unreasonable request. Maybe you can complain about the quantities, ask for an itemized invoice, but, eh.

3) You've sent your minister, which you trust dearly, has been at your side for years, real standup guy, and he says they're making the most beautiful clothing. You've sent another official, and he says it's absolutely magnificent. You go and visit in person, and they point at empty looms, whilst saying "see, aren't these the most beautiful clothes ever?" Your guards stay silent.

So here's one of the places where I'm interested in the answer, because this is the point of personal doubt as the emperor. You can either, as in the story, say "Oh yes, such wonderful clothes!" and internally go "oh crap am I unfit", or I think you could go "What clothes are you talking about, those are empty looms!" But the evidence you have is, there's 2 people who you don't know that are saying "the clothes exist and they have a property that if you cannot see them you are dumb and/or unfit", and there's 2 people who you really really trust that are saying "look at these fine fine clothes, they really do exist".

My answer in this case would be to station the guards in the room, leave the room with the ministers, and ask them individually "Okay, now let's be honest. Did you really see those clothes?" If any of them say no, I'd have the "tailors" executed. But if they both say yes and start expressing worry for me and all that then I don't know what to believe.

4) You're a citizen of the country. The emperor is having a parade to showcase his new clothes! They're supposedly magical clothes, which cannot be seen by those who are unfit and/or dumb. It's a bit chilly. Everyone's talking about the fancy clothes, and when the emperor comes around the corner, you can see him: He's naked, but otherwise fine. Behind him are several noblemen, pretending to hold the drape of the clothes. Your friend looks at you and says, "Look, aren't those the most fancy clothes?"

This case too, is hard for me. I mean, it depends on your standing in society for how much you stand to lose, but in a medieval society, if you're a farmhand? I'd say "but he's naked!". Farmhands aren't particularily clever (I might be misguided), but they haven't got a whole lot to lose. But if you're a craftsman, somehow who has a shop? Yeah, that'd be a big reputation hit, if the whole town thought you were unfit to make the things you make.

My question, for each case - what's the rational belief to hold? The main beliefs you can hold that I can see are "The clothes do not exist, but everyone is faking it, and it should stop", "The clothes do not exist, but everyone is faking it, and I should fake it too" and "I am unfit and/or dumb and I better fake seeing those clothes lest I lose my station".

My other question - As the emperor, you could go all science on the clothes. "I can see the clothes just fine, but why do they not cast shadows?" "These clothes are very light", in fact, when weighed, they don't weigh anything, they don't create shadows, they let heat through, they don't hold water (it seeps straight through as if the clothes weren't there)... That'd be one way to quickly gather evidence. I'd also express worry - if someone can't see the clothes, won't they see me naked?

Anyway, my other question - how would you gather extra evidence as a citizen?

Interesting questions to think about. Seeing if everyone independently describes the clothes the same way (as suggested by others) might work, unless the information is leaked. Personally, my mind went straight to the physics of the thing, 'going all science on it' as you say - as emperor, I'd claim that the clothes should have some minimum strength, lest I rip them the moment I put them on. If a piece of the fabric, stretched by the two tailors, can at least support the weight of my hand (or some other light object if you're not too paranoid about the tai... (read more)

3Viliam9y

Collect more evidence. If possible, find a person who never heard about the supposed properties of the clothes, and ask them to describe them to you. If they can't, maybe they are stupid, but then find another one and... uhm, if everyone who didn't hear about the supposed properties of the clothes is stupid, that's suspicious. Unexpectedly invite a few painters, put them in different corners of the room, and ask them to paint you in the clothes. Alternatively, test your ministers. First, meet them with the clothes; next, without them. If they see the clothes both times... Put the clothes in a bag. Add a few empty bags. Ask your ministers which bag contains the clothes. If all of them failed, ask the tailors.

0ChristianKl9y

The irony of the situation is that some fancy closes that are today worn in Milan leave a large part of the person naked. [...] As different people for the color of the clothes and for more details. If the people really can see the clothes they should be able to describe the clothes in the same way. If there already common knowledge about the color of the clothes or details then it would be required to see the clothes in a new context. How do the clothes look like when they get wet? If two people agree how the clothes look under a completely new context it's more likely that they don't just tell you the answer they learned by heart.