HughRistik comments on Love and Rationality: Less Wrongers on OKCupid - LessWrong

19 Post author: Relsqui 11 October 2010 06:35AM

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Comment author: HughRistik 21 October 2010 07:00:20PM 0 points [-]

Interesting examples. I gotta cite the TVTropes article on Hollywood Nerds:

Type 1: Pasty, weak, Geek Physiques, probably with Nerd Glasses, bullied by the jocks, Can Not Spit It Out if a girl is anywhere within range, working on odd projects in their basements and garages. These are the nerd stereotypes that were most prevalent in the 70s and 80s, the ones that feature in movies like Revenge of the Nerds, the sort that Bill Gates and Steve Jobs looked like back in the day. ...Ok, Gates still looks kinda like that, but he's a billionaire now, wanna make something of it? You would think the nerds ruling the world nowadays would make this a Discredited Trope, but there's enough Truth In Television to Geek Physiques to keep this one running.

Type 2: Take your average attractive actor or actress and stick on Nerd Glasses, a lab coat and some mussed hair and clothes to make them Hollywood Homely. They are probably also Hollywood Dateless, and the social ineptitude may only be an Informed Flaw. They may even shoot straight into Hot Scientist or Hot Librarian territory without help from their smarts to pull it off. May be involved in an Ugly Duckling Beautiful All Along story if they do get paired off with someone.

I think some of your examples are Type 2 Hollywood nerds: hot people with glasses stuck on. That type does defy the general nerd stereotype, but it doesn't do so in a believable way, so I'm not sure how much these portrayals actually dent the "nerd" stereotype.

The "hacker" archetype is a bit different. "Hacker" incorporates rebelliousness and creativity which is attractive and high-status, in addition to being emotionally relatable.

Goth and punk aesthetics also relate nerds to rebelliousness and Romanticism.

Justin Long is an interesting character. Why did he become the hacker for Die Hard, other than having good looks? There actually are a bunch of qualities that both Justin Long's Mac character have, and Hollywood hackers have. Justin Long's character also exemplifies creativity (Macs are associated with media, and his clothes and hairstyle look artsy) and rebelliousness (against the authority of the PC in the workplace).

The end result is that I only find Long semi-believable as a hacker. It's much easier to imagine him working in Final Cut Pro than doing scripting. My suspicions were confirmed when I looked up an interview of Long and found he does not have a technical mind: he says that he isn't good at math and his mind "doesn't work that way." Justin Long's Mac character is a textbook "Hollywood Nerd."

Technical interests are cool to have as long as you mask them in rebelliousness or artsiness.

Comment author: [deleted] 21 October 2010 07:38:52PM 5 points [-]

To avoid getting far off track, citing these fictions was in order to make a point about the changing meaning of "nerd". With that in mind, look at what the article you linked to says about real nerds:

In Real Life, nerds can run the entire spectrum of "beauty" and social prowess, from unattractive and socially inept to drop dead gorgeous and a social butterfly. Like most people, most nerds are simply of average looks and social skills. The only thing that really differentiates nerds from anyone else is their intense interest in niche topics.

That's agreeing with my thesis about what the concept of "nerd" has come to mean recently. The article writer thinks that it is distinguishing real nerds (who are distinguished only by intense interest in niche topics) from Hollywood Nerds (who are type 1 or type 2). But if you simply look at a dictionary (none of them have been updated to reflect the new meaning - the latest shift is too recent), the word "nerd" did not just mean someone with an interest in niche topics. By (earlier) definition, a nerd was not "of average looks and social skills". The word has been gutted of its earlier meaning and emotional impact, making it no longer, or at least less, painful for someone to call themselves a nerd.

The American Heritage Dictionary traces the meaning of "nerd" through time. In 1957, meant "square", which, looking it up, meant conventional or old-fashioned or opposed to current trends. Nothing there about intense interest in niche topics. Then in 1970, an uninteresting person, a "dud". Again, nothing there about intense interest in niche topics. At some point, the concept of "nerd" gained the element of keen and single-minded interest in niche and especially technical topics. while retaining the "dud" element. But now we see, in the article you link to, that "nerd" has, at least for some, dropped the "dud" element and retained only the (relatively new) element of interest in niche topics.

Comment author: HughRistik 21 October 2010 09:52:40PM 0 points [-]

I agree with you that the concept of "nerd" has been slowly changing, but I think it's still pretty bad.

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