dlthomas comments on Holden's Objection 1: Friendliness is dangerous - LessWrong
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"A point I may not have made in these posts, but made in comments, is that the majority of humans today think that women should not have full rights, homosexuals should be killed or at least severely persecuted, and nerds should be given wedgies. These are not incompletely-extrapolated values that will change with more information; they are values. Opponents of gay marriage make it clear that they do not object to gay marriage based on a long-range utilitarian calculation; they directly value not allowing gays to marry. Many human values horrify most people on this list, so they shouldn't be trying to preserve them."
This has always been my principal objection to CEV. I strongly suspect that were it implemented, it would want the death of a lot of my friends, and quite possibly me, too.
Um, if you would object to your friends being killed (even if you knew more, thought faster, and grew up further with others), then it wouldn't be coherent to value killing them.
Just because I wouldn't value that, doesn't mean that the majority of the world wouldn't. Which is my whole point.
My understanding is that CEV is based on consensus, in which case the majority is meaningless.
Some quotes from the CEV document:
Though it's not clear to me how the document would deal with Wei Dai's point in the sibling comment. In the absence of coherence on the question of whether to protect, persecute, or ignore impopular minority groups, does CEV default to protecting them or ignoring them? You might say that as written, it would obviously not protect them, because there was no coherence in favor of doing so; but what if protection of minority groups is a side effect of other measures CEV was taking anyway?
(For what it's worth, I suspect that extrapolation would in fact create enough coherence for this particular scenario not to be a problem.)
Thank you. So, not quite consensus but similarly biased in favor if inaction.
If CEV doesn't positively value some minority group not being killed (i.e., if it's just indifferent due to not having a consensus), then the majority would be free to try to kill that group. So we really do need CEV to saying something about this, instead of nothing.
Assuming we have no other checks on behavior, yes. I'm not sure, pending more reflection, whether that's a fair assumption or not...
There is absolutely no reason to think that the values of all humans, extrapolated in some way, will arrive at a consensus.