nshepperd comments on By Which It May Be Judged - LessWrong

35 Post author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 10 December 2012 04:26AM

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Comment author: Vaniver 11 December 2012 12:51:53AM 1 point [-]

'Beautiful' needs 2 places because our concept of beauty admits of perceptual variation. 'Fairness' does not grammatically need an 'according to whom?' argument place, because our concept of fairness is not observer-relative.

What? It seems to me that fairness and beauty are equally subjective, and the intuition that says "but my sense of fairness is objectively correct!" is the same intuition that says "but my sense of beauty is objectively correct!"

If we can logically pinpoint 'fairness,' then fairness can be rigorously and objectively discussed even if some species find the concept loathsome

I agree that we can logically pinpoint any specific concept; to use the pie example, Yancy uses the concept of "splitting windfalls equally by weight" and Zaire uses the concept of "splitting windfalls equally by desire." What I disagree with is the proposition that there is this well-defined and objective concept of "fair" that, in the given situation, points to "splitting windfalls equally by weight."

One could put forward the axiom that "splitting windfalls equally by weight is fair", just like one can put forward the axiom that "zero is not the successor of any number," but we are no closer to that axiom having any decision-making weight; it is just a model, and for it to be used it needs to be a useful and appropriate model.

Comment author: nshepperd 11 December 2012 01:47:51AM 1 point [-]

What I disagree with is the proposition that there is this well-defined and objective concept of "fair" that, in the given situation, points to "splitting windfalls equally by weight."

"Fair", quoted, is a word. You don't think it's plausible that in English "fair" could refer to splitting windfalls equally by weight? (Or rather to something a bit more complicated that comes out to splitting windfalls equally by weight in the situation of the three travellers and the pie.)

Comment author: Vaniver 11 December 2012 05:12:41AM 1 point [-]

I agree that someone could mean "splitting windfalls equally by weight" when they say "fair." I further submit that words can be ambiguous, and someone else could mean "splitting windfalls equally by desire" when they say "fair." In such a case, where the word seems to adding more heat than light, I would scrap it and go with the more precise phrases.