kalla724 quotes from the thread:
Reading the structure and "downloading it" is impossible, since many aspects of synaptic strength and connectivity are irretrievably lost as soon as the synaptic membrane gets distorted.
Distortion of the membranes and replacement of solvent irretrievably destroys information that I believe to be essential to the structure of the mind.
I don't think any intelligence can read information that is no longer there. So, no, I don't think it will help.
The damage that is occurring - distortion of membranes, denaturation of proteins (very likely), disruption of signalling pathways. Just changing the exact localization of Ca microdomains within a synapse can wreak havoc, replacing the liquid completely? Not going to work.
Replacing the solvent, however, would do it almost unavoidably (adding the cryoprotectant might not, but removing it during rehydration will). With membrane-bound proteins you also have the issue of asymmetry. Proteins will seem fine in a symmetric membrane, but more and more data shows that many don't really work properly; there is a reason why cells keep phosphatydilserine and PIPs predominantly on the inner leaflet.
These appear to be saying just what I thought they were saying - current cryonics practice destroys the information - and, given the above, I don't see sufficient evidence to assume your reading.
These appear to be saying just what I thought they were saying - current cryonics practice destroys the information - and, given the above, I don't see sufficient evidence to assume your reading.
At best you can get the impression that kalla is in principle aware of the information-theoretic criterion of death but in practice just conflating it with functional damage and knowledge of how hard it would be to repair in situ. What I observe is a domain expert (predictably, and typically) overestimating the relevance of their expertise to a situation outside...
There are a lot of steps that all need to go correctly for cryonics to work. People who had gone through the potential problems, assigning probabilities, had come up with odds of success between 1:4 and 1:435. About a year ago I went through and collected estimates, finding other people's and making my own. I've been maintaining these in a googledoc.
Yesterday, on the bus back from the NYC mega-meetup with a group of people from the Cambridge LessWrong meetup, I got more people to give estimates for these probabilities. We started with my potential problems, I explained the model and how independence works in it [1]. For each question everyone decided on their own answer and then we went around and shared our answers (to reduce anchoring). Because there's still going to be some people adjusting to others based on their answers I tried to randomize the order in which I asked people their estimates. My notes are here. [2]
The questions were:
To see people's detailed responses have a look at the googledoc, but bottom line numbers were:
(These are all rounded, but one of the two should have enough resolution for each person.)
The most significant way my estimate differs from others turned out to be for "the current cryonics process is insufficient to preserve everything". On that question alone we have:
My estimate for this used to be more positive, but it was significantly brought down by reading this lesswrong comment:
In the responses to their comment they go into more detail.
Should I be giving this information this much weight? "many aspects of synaptic strength and connectivity are irretrievably lost as soon as the synaptic membrane gets distorted" seems critical.
Other questions on which I was substantially more pessimistic than others were "all cryonics companies go out of business", "the technology is never developed to extract the information", "no one is interested in your brain's information", and "it is too expensive to extract your brain's information".
I also posted this on my blog
[1] Specifically, each question is asking you "the chance that X happens and this keeps you from being revived, assuming that all of the previous steps all succeeded". So if both A and B would keep you from being successfully revived, and I ask them in that order, but you think they're basically the same question, then A basically only A gets a probability while B gets 0 or close to it (because B is technically "B given not-A")./p>
[2] For some reason I was writing ".000000001" when people said "impossible". For the purposes of this model '0' is fine, and that's what I put on the googledoc.