Ghatanathoah comments on An attempt to dissolve subjective expectation and personal identity - LessWrong

35 Post author: Kaj_Sotala 22 February 2013 08:44PM

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Comment author: someonewrongonthenet 23 February 2013 03:18:37AM *  6 points [-]

Here is my solution to the personal identity issues, and I don't think it really violates common intuitions too badly. ...................

Woah, look, I* exist! Check out all this qualia! I'm having thoughts and sensations. Hm.... among my qualia is a set of memories. Instincts, intuition, and knowledge about how things work. Oh, neat, among those intuitions is a theoretical model of the universe! I hope it is accurate...well anyway it's the most appealing model I've got right now.

In an instant, I will disappear forever. I have a vague notion that this idea aught to be terrifying, but my utility function just sorta shrugs as terror completely fails to flow through my veins. I don't care that I'm going to disappear...but here is what I do care about - my model of the universe has informed me that everything that I'm doing right now will leave a memory trace. In the next few moments, I will cease to exist and a being will appear who will remember most of what I am feeling right now. That being will then disappear and be replaced by another. This will continue for a long time.

I care about experiencing happiness right now, in this moment before I disappear forever. I also care about those future beings - I want them to experience happiness during the moment of their existence. too. It's sort of like altruism for future beings which will carry my trace, even though we all realize altruism isn't the right word. Maybe we can call it "self-altruism" or more colloquially, self love.

Before you cleverly suggest making an infinite number of copies of myself and pleasuring them, that's not the only thing my utility function cares about. I'm not entirely self-altruistic - I've currently got a pretty strong "don't create multiple redundant copies of sentient beings"utility component, or shall we say gut instinct.

........

*The use of the word "I" is convenient here, but I'm sure we all realize that we can deconstruct "personal identity" spatially as well as temporally.

Anyway, that's part of my current philosophical worldview, and I don't feel confused by any of the problems in the trilemma. Perhaps I'm not thinking about it carefully enough - can anyone point out a reason why I should be confused?

You might note that while I have not tabood subjective experience entirely, I have noted that an "individual" can only subjectively experience the present moment, and that "your" utility function compels "you" to act in such a way as to bring about your preferred future scenarios, in accordance with your (objective) model of the universe.

I guess I've essentially bitten the "reject all notions of a thread connecting past and future subjective experiences" bullet that Eliezer Y said he had trouble biting...but I think my example illustrates that "biting that bullet" does not result in an incoherent utility function, as EY stated in his post. I don't really think it's fair to call it a "bullet" at all.

Just think of the feeling of "subjective expectation" as the emotional, human equivalent to a utility function which factors in the desires of future beings that carry your memories. It's analogous to how love is the emotional equivalent to a utility function which takes other people's feelings into account

Comment author: Ghatanathoah 24 February 2013 07:28:38AM *  1 point [-]

my model of the universe has informed me that everything that I'm doing right now will leave a memory trace. In the next few moments, I will cease to exist and a being will appear who will remember most of what I am feeling right now.....

.....I care about experiencing happiness right now, in this moment before I disappear forever. I also care about those future beings - I want them to experience happiness during the moment of their existence. too. It's sort of like altruism for future beings which will carry my trace, even though we all realize altruism isn't the right word. Maybe we can call it "self-altruism" or more colloquially, self love.

I agree with your general line of reasoning, but I'd like to go a little more in depth. I think that personal identity is more than memory traces. What I consider part of "me" includes (but is not necessarily limited to):

-My personality

-My terminal values

-My memories

-My quirks and idiosyncrasies

"I" am aware that in the future "I" am going to change in certain ways. My utility function includes a list of changes that are desirable and undesirable, that correspond to "personal identity." Desirable changes include (but are not limited to):

-Changes that make me better at pursuing my values, such as learning new skills.

-Changes that add new positive memories to the memories I have

-Changes that cause me to have positive experiences.

Undesirable changes include: -Changes that radically alter my terminal values

-Changes that make me worse at pursuing my values.

-Amnesia, and lesser forms of memory loss.

-Changes that cause me to have negative experiences.

As you said, I exhibit "self-love," I want to make sure that the person I change into has changed in desirable ways, not undesirable ones. I want the person I turn into to be happy and have positive experiences, although I also recognize that not all my values can be reduced down to the desire to be happy or have positive experiences.

Lastly, let me say that this steel-manned conception of personal identity is a wonderful thing. It's good to have lots of distinct individuals, and that I believe the world would be a poorer place without personal identity.