ThrustVectoring comments on Effective Altruism Through Advertising Vegetarianism? - LessWrong

20 Post author: peter_hurford 12 June 2013 06:50PM

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Comment author: ThrustVectoring 16 June 2013 03:40:33AM 2 points [-]

As far as improving the world through behavioral changes go, advertising e-cigarettes is probably much more cost effective than advertising vegetarianism. You could even target it to smokers (either through statistics and social information, or just be grabbing low-income people in general and restaurant, fast food, and retail workers in particular).

Comment author: peter_hurford 16 June 2013 04:57:27AM *  -1 points [-]

Not that I necessarily doubt you, but what makes you think that?

Comment author: ThrustVectoring 18 June 2013 02:41:57AM 2 points [-]

What hurts smokers isn't nicotine exactly, it's all the other stuff that gets into their lungs when they burn tobacco. A big part of why quitting smoking is hard is because nicotine helps form habits - specifically, the habit of getting out a cigarette, lighting it, and inhaling. E-cigarettes push the same habit buttons as tobacco cigarettes, so its much easier for smokers to go tobacco-free and vastly improve their health and quality of life by switching over to inhaling the vapors of mixes of nicotine, propylene glycol, and flavorings.

Comment author: RyanCarey 18 June 2013 03:05:04AM 1 point [-]

And neither that I doubt you, but what makes you think it's cost-effective?

Comment author: ThrustVectoring 18 June 2013 04:21:53PM 0 points [-]

Ah, misunderstood your question. Its more on the benefit side of things - the effectiveness of ads is within an order of magnitude, but you get human QALYS instead of preventing cruelty to chickens.

Comment author: peter_hurford 18 June 2013 04:02:44AM -1 points [-]

What RyanCarey said. I understand the principle behind E-cigarettes and support them, but I'm not yet convinced that advocating for them would produce more net welfare improvement per dollar than advocating for people to eat less meat.

Comment author: ThrustVectoring 18 June 2013 04:25:33PM *  3 points [-]

It depends on the relative effectiveness of ads and the coonversion ratio you're willing to accept between human and animal suffering. So my statement can be reduced more to 'I don't think chicken suffering is important'

I don't think that some animals are capable of suffering, but can't think of how to make my point without talking about animal suffering. I mean, how many rocks would you be willig to break for a QALY? Thats about how many chickens I would be willing to kill.

Comment author: Raemon 18 June 2013 04:55:44PM -2 points [-]

I mean... that's a theoretically coherent statement, but isolating "e-cigarettes" as a thing to talk about instead of just saying "I don't value chickens" seems odd.

What is it about humans you value? Do you value humans with extreme retardation, or a hypothetical inability to form relationships?