Lumifer comments on On Walmart, And Who Bears Responsibility For the Poor - LessWrong

13 Post author: ChrisHallquist 27 November 2013 05:08AM

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Comment author: gattsuru 23 November 2013 08:58:23PM *  6 points [-]

Part of Sanders' argument relies on the belief that there is a possible free lunch, here : they believe WalMart could raise wages significantly without causing the company to explode, either not harming people in ways that count to the progressive movement (decreased profit to corporations) or by arguments of comparison to CostCo, Trader Joe's, or other stores that have different structures. I'm pretty sure the math doesn't work out that way, and the realistic event chain is likely to be drastically different, but it's a very common belief. From that perspective, it's more the concept that WalMart's low wages are a bad equilibrium point established by existing laws, and because it is less costly to the state for WalMart to directly pay more at a different equilibrium, the state should force them to change their actions.

If it helps, almost all of the people opposing WalMart on this tactic have called for increase welfare states of the type compatible with what you've suggested. It's likely to complicate getting interest from the right-wing in the United States, but since the right consider work requirements one of its biggest successes there are some much more pressing issues with trying to get them to accept a basic income guarantee.

((On the flip side, I think there are some issues with BIG or BIG-like systems that make them poor solutions to gwern's concerns, but these probably exist outside the scope of this thread.))

Comment author: Lumifer 24 November 2013 12:46:13AM 4 points [-]

there is a possible free lunch, here : they believe WalMart could raise wages significantly without causing the company to explode

That doesn't match my idea of what a free lunch is. I believe a better descriptive term would be the deep pockets theory.

Comment author: Izeinwinter 24 November 2013 08:28:55PM -1 points [-]

It isnt even a question of deep pockets. Require walmart to pay each employee twice as much, and they will probably fire half of them, train the remainder better, and have customers bag their own groceries. Same total labor cost. This is generally considered better on the grounds that the people fired by walmart in this situation are not really worse of - any other employment they come by is as least as good because their current employment situation verily doth sucket hose - and the people still working there would then have actual jobs.

Comment author: Lumifer 25 November 2013 02:02:21AM 5 points [-]

Require walmart to pay each employee twice as much, and they will probably fire half of them, train the remainder better, and have customers bag their own groceries. Same total labor cost.

I see no reason to believe this would happen. May I recommend a post on the subject?

the people fired by walmart in this situation are not really worse of

Oh really? Do you think Wal-Mart employees agree with you on that point? You're basically saying that there is no reason for anyone to work at Wal-Mart. This is... empirically wrong.

actual jobs

What counts as one?