Uh, what? I struggle to imagine how you would get a more literal rendering without breaking English syntactical rules. Hm, perhaps removing the "would you" — "Be so kind as to ..." — would make it absolutely literal. Is that really a large change in effect, though?
How about "Be kind/nice, do X"? It's grammatical - of course, it's a weird thing to say, but the entire point was that the literal translations are weird and/or pushy. "would you be so kind as to" is indirect in virtue of being a question and not containing an imperative; of course, it's the correct translation, but it's really a very different construction.
That makes grammatical sense, but it's somewhat weird to phrase a request like this. Like, "hey, will you be doing X?" — that seems like a question. It could be a request... but only in Guess culture. I've almost never heard someone say this and just mean it as a request on its own; sometimes that sort of construction is followed by a request...
Good to know. I once read that it has something of "you were supposed to do it, so are you gonna do it or what?" about it, but as I said, I have no personal experience with it.
In Russian, you could say (and people often do): "Не мог бы ты закрыть окно?" — which by direct translation becomes "Could you close the window?" — but the Russian phrase is quite polite-sounding, whereas the English phrase is less so.
Yes, I agree. I would guess that the counterpart of "could you hold that for a minute?" would perhaps be "подержи, пожалуйста, на минутку" - but "hold that for a minute, please" strikes me as really very rude in English.
I don't know... that seems "Asky" to the extent that you are asking someone for something, rather than making them guess, but I don't see it as any more direct, per se, than the English equivalents.
Well, for one thing, I feel it's weird to say "I have a request for you" in English. You'd normally say "could I ask you for something/a favor". In that, the Russian formulation is already more direct.
Of course, as I said, all that is not exactly strong evidence in favor of Russia actually having more of an ask culture, only very mildly suggestive. You can behave in an Ask or Guess culture way in either language, it's just that the conventionalized politeness strategies of English make a lot of use of indirection (questions, and usually moralized, virtually never imperatives), whereas in Russian, when saying something that is equivalent in politeness to a certain English construction, you mention the request somewhat more directly (although, as you point out, there is the more indirect "могли бы вы" strategy).
By the way, do you live in Russian or another Russian-speaking country? Because I've seen a study that showed that heritage speakers of Russian (i.e. speakers who live in a different linguistic community but learned the language from a parent) adopt more English-like politeness strategies. The reference is here.
How about "Be kind/nice, do X"? It's grammatical - of course, it's a weird thing to say, but the entire point was that the literal translations are weird and/or pushy. "would you be so kind as to" is indirect in virtue of being a question and not containing an imperative; of course, it's the correct translation, but it's really a very different construction.
Ah, yes, I see your point.
I think I agree with what you're saying sufficiently that anything further would be nitpicking. I do think it would be interesting to study this in more ...
Followup to: Ask and Guess
Ask culture: "I'll be in town this weekend for a business trip. Is it cool if I crash at your place?" Response: “Yes“ or “no”.
Guess culture: "Hey, great news! I'll be in town this weekend for a business trip!" Response: Infer that they might be telling you this because they want something from you, conclude that they might want a place to stay, and offer your hospitality only if you want to. Otherwise, pretend you didn’t infer that.
The two basic rules of Ask Culture: 1) Ask when you want something. 2) Interpret things as requests and feel free to say "no".
The two basic rules of Guess Culture: 1) Ask for things if, and *only* if, you're confident the person will say "yes". 2) Interpret requests as expectations of "yes", and, when possible, avoid saying "no".
Both approaches come with costs and benefits. In the end, I feel pretty strongly that Ask is superior.
But these are not the only two possibilities!
"I'll be in town this weekend for a business trip. I would like to stay at your place, since it would save me the cost of a hotel, plus I would enjoy seeing you and expect we’d have some fun. I'm looking for other options, though, and would rather stay elsewhere than inconvenience you." Response: “I think I need some space this weekend. But I’d love to get a beer or something while you’re in town!” or “You should totally stay with me. I’m looking forward to it.”
There is a third alternative, and I think it's probably what rationalist communities ought to strive for. I call it "Tell Culture".
The two basic rules of Tell Culture: 1) Tell the other person what's going on in your own mind whenever you suspect you'd both benefit from them knowing. (Do NOT assume others will accurately model your mind without your help, or that it will even occur to them to ask you questions to eliminate their ignorance.) 2) Interpret things people tell you as attempts to create common knowledge for shared benefit, rather than as requests or as presumptions of compliance.
Suppose you’re in a conversation that you’re finding aversive, and you can’t figure out why. Your goal is to procure a rain check.
Here are more examples from my own life:
The burden of honesty is even greater in Tell culture than in Ask culture. To a Guess culture person, I imagine much of the above sounds passive aggressive or manipulative, much worse than the rude bluntness of mere Ask. It’s because Guess people aren’t expecting relentless truth-telling, which is exactly what’s necessary here.
If you’re occasionally dishonest and tell people you want things you don't actually care about--like their comfort or convenience--they’ll learn not to trust you, and the inherent freedom of the system will be lost. They’ll learn that you only pretend to care about them to take advantage of their reciprocity instincts, when in fact you’ll count them as having defected if they respond by stating a preference for protecting their own interests.
Tell culture is cooperation with open source codes.
This kind of trust does not develop overnight. Here is the most useful Tell tactic I know of for developing that trust with a native Ask or Guess. It’s saved me sooooo much time and trouble, and I wish I’d thought of it earlier.
"I'm not asking because I expect you to say ‘yes’. I'm asking because I'm having trouble imagining the inside of your head, and I want to understand better. You are completely free to say ‘no’, or to tell me what you’re thinking right now, and I promise it will be fine." It is amazing how often people quickly stop looking shifty and say 'no' after this, or better yet begin to discuss further details.