ShannonFriedman comments on The Puzzle of Faith and Belief - LessWrong

-11 [deleted] 28 September 2014 03:21PM

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Comment author: ShannonFriedman comment score below threshold [+] (9 children)

Comment author: Cyan 29 September 2014 12:03:33AM * 0 points [-]

...a long advertisement for CFAR...

...containing an immediately useful (or at least, immediately practicable) suggestion, as, er, advertised.

Comment author: ShannonFriedman 29 September 2014 01:44:43AM 1 point [-]

Yes. I will come back to this and fill in the missing piece, as I said to hairyfigment when they brought it to my attention.

To me the conclusion is obvious, but I can see how it is not to people who are not me, now that this has been pointed out to me. I want to take my time to figure out how to word it properly, and have been very busy with work. I will be getting to it either later tonight or tomorrow.

That said, I personally find it laughable that hairyfigment linked a piece that is clearly advertising propaganda IMHO after claiming that my post sounded like advertisement. Perhaps if I call myself an executive director this would not bother people? :) I had better be careful or I'm going to get this post entirely deleted... ;)

Comment author: 27chaos 29 September 2014 05:03:17AM * 2 points [-]

Is the intended point simply that people have more confidence in their beliefs than would be optimal? People should change their assumptions more often and see what happens?

Comment author: ShannonFriedman 29 September 2014 05:12:52AM * 1 point [-]

One of several. I wrote a couple of others here. In retrospect, it is a very good point that I was writing my thoughts more than writing to a specific conclusion, and that I made a writing error in not specifying an action oriented conclusion.

I want to add one in, but since there are actually several different points I'm making in the article, I need to think it through and decide which to include or not in the official conclusion.

I somewhat wish I could help many people on this site learn to be a lot nicer about pointing these things out, as you have been here. However, as they would say to me, it is my choice to post on this site, and thus to the degree I'm here, I it behooves me to play by, or at least tolerate, the cultural rules.

Comment author: Cyan 29 September 2014 05:36:31AM * 1 point [-]

clearly advertising propaganda

It's not clear to me -- I'm not even sure what you think it's advertising!

( ETA: I wrote a bunch of irrelevant stuff, but then I scrolled up and saw (again, but it somehow slipped my mind even though I friggin' quoted it in the grandparent, I'm going senile at the tender age of 36) that you specifically think it's advertising for CFAR, so I've deleted the irrelevant stuff. )

Advertising for CFAR seems like a stretch, because -- although very nice things are said about Anna Salamon -- the actual product CFAR sells isn't mentioned at all.

Comment author: RichardKennaway 29 September 2014 12:15:08PM 0 points [-]

To me the conclusion is obvious, but I can see how it is not to people who are not me, now that this has been pointed out to me.

Well then, I would like to point out a more general fact.

Everyone that you will ever deal with, in any way, is someone who is not you.

Comment author: ShannonFriedman 29 September 2014 03:47:02PM 1 point [-]

Umm... why does this need to be pointed out?

To me, I was being nice and empathizing with the point made. This feels like I expressed vulnerability and you decided to sink your teeth in and/or rub my nose in shit to tell me what I've done wrong, except I don't actually understand what you're even trying to show me.

Comment author: RichardKennaway 30 September 2014 02:24:49PM 0 points [-]

Sorry, I didn't mean to be so abrasive. It's just that communication is, practically by definition, communication with people who are not oneself. It seemed to me that you were surprised to come up against this.

As for the original post itself, it seems to me, as it has to some others who have commented, that it talks around something that sounds like it might be interesting, but never says the thing itself.

Comment author: ShannonFriedman 11 October 2014 09:58:27PM 1 point [-]

Hi Richard,

I just saw this, sorry about the delay in response.

Yes, I was surprised by the response, because my assumptions about other people's assumptions were wrong in this case.

I do of course understand that no one else has the same mental model I do - my mistake was in that I did not model correctly quite how different my mental models are from the majority of Less Wrong readers on this topic.

Given the hostility of the responses I received in response to my attempt to share something I find valuable, I'm really not inclined to keep going.

Yes, I did make a mistake, but I do not feel an obligation to keep paying and paying for it to ungrateful people... why would I want to teach them anything?

It is work to better articulate - to figure out what the difference is between our models and be able to name it in a way that the group can understand.

I do not feel that I have adequate reason at this point in time to make that investment of my time and energy, when the only payment is contempt and ridicule.

ShannonFriedman comments on The Puzzle of Faith and Belief - LessWrong

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