entirelyuseless comments on Non-communicable Evidence - LessWrong

9 Post author: adamzerner 17 November 2015 03:46AM

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Comment author: entirelyuseless 26 November 2015 04:09:26PM 0 points [-]

This is certainly what most people do in fact, but it is a bad idea, because it means that normally a person who hears something he disagrees with simply ignores it, even when there are good reasons not to do so.

Comment author: ChristianKl 26 November 2015 04:23:21PM 0 points [-]

This is certainly what most people do in fact, but it is a bad idea, because it means that normally a person who hears something he disagrees with simply ignores it, even when there are good reasons not to do so.

In the moment where I hear someone I consider to be a programming expert saying that 'programming needs system I to be done well', beliefs in my brain shift pretty automatically in that direction without any direct intervention. I don't think I have even the option to not let it affect my beliefs.

Comment author: entirelyuseless 26 November 2015 04:25:58PM 1 point [-]

Fine, but that could be because you had no strong opinion on the matter in the first place opposed to that, or because you are unusual.

Comment author: ChristianKl 26 November 2015 05:40:00PM 0 points [-]

or because you are unusual.

I don't think so. It's very normal human process that beliefs change when you hear a person you consider authoritative making an argument.

Beliefs get mostly changed by system I and we don't even have system II direct write access to them.

Comment author: entirelyuseless 27 November 2015 02:27:01PM 0 points [-]

I disagree; I think we have direct write access to nearly everything that matters about our beliefs.

Comment author: ChristianKl 27 November 2015 02:35:26PM 0 points [-]

If that would be true a person with social anxiety could simply overwrite the beliefs that make them uncomfortable because they think other people are judging them.

Comment author: Jurily 27 November 2015 03:14:25PM 0 points [-]

Yes, it's a learnable skill. Stage hypnotists exist.

Comment author: ChristianKl 27 November 2015 03:53:33PM 0 points [-]

Yes, it's a learnable skill. Stage hypnotists exist.

In stage hypnosis people don't change their beliefs themselves but get lead by another person to change their beliefs.

More to the point, I wasn't focused on what's theoretically possible but what we do in day to day interactions. In day to day interactions we don't simply write new beliefs directly into our minds.

Comment author: entirelyuseless 27 November 2015 08:13:16PM 0 points [-]

Let's suppose that you had reason to believe that the sky is blue, but found yourself believing that it was green. This would not stop you from telling people, "I found out that the sky is blue," and giving the reasons that show that it is blue (since we are assuming you had reason to believe that it is blue.) Likewise, suppose someone comes up to you and says, "I would like to bet you $100 that the sky is green and propose the following test..." No matter how you feel about the color of the sky, you are perfectly free to accept the bet and win if the sky is blue.

So in other words, as I said, you have direct write access to pretty much everything that matters about a belief: you can say it is true, argue for it, and act on it.

Comment author: ChristianKl 29 November 2015 02:19:25PM 0 points [-]

No matter how you feel about the color of the sky, you are perfectly free to accept the bet and win if the sky is blue.

"perfectly free" basically supposes that you have free will. In practice human's like to believe that they have free will but they don't behave that way in experimental settings. As long as you think about thought experiments with your usual intuition that presupposes free will you don't get to the substance of the argument and understand how beliefs work in practice.

Comment author: TheOtherDave 29 November 2015 01:27:33AM 0 points [-]

So, you pick an example with no emotional valence. But let's suppose instead that I have reason to believe that I'm perfectly safe, but find myself believing that someone is going to kill me in my sleep. This would not stop me from telling people I'm perfectly safe, or from giving the reasons that show I'm perfectly safe, or from accepting a similar $100 bet. It might, however, prevent me from getting a good night's sleep.

Is that not a thing that matters about the belief that I'm safe?