Comment author: Eugine_Nier 17 January 2014 06:47:26AM 3 points [-]

On the other hand though, I see a lot of problems with a privately run police force. For example if the chief of police was making a profit from fighting crime, why would he not expand his business by creating more crime to fight?

Only if you pay him by criminal caught, as opposed to making him part of an insurance company that is responsible for reimbursing people victimized by crime.

The nature of the service and how fundamental it is to society.

Food is fundamental to society, should all food production be government controlled?

If the only drinking straw company decided it was going to make gold straws, poor people wouldn't get any- but that wouldn't be such a big deal.

If the only drinking straw company decided it was going to make gold straws, another company would get into the straw making business and start making affordable straws.

Comment author: A-Lurker 17 January 2014 08:12:25AM -2 points [-]

Food is important and it is supported with tax payer money by some governments for that very reason. I think government action on it should be considered. Of course no changes should be made if the system isn't broken and and if they do it should be for the better or not at all. I'm not advocating socialism just for the sake of being socialist. When private is better- it's better.

About the straws you fully missed the point. What i'm saying is no matter how bad someone screwed up the straw industry it won't be a serious blow to society. By talking about supply and demand you are changing the subject

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 17 January 2014 07:44:08AM -2 points [-]

Under the old system people had two choices:

1) Pay a private fire company.

2) Take the risk their house will burn down.

The new system is equivalent to the old except people can only make choice (1) and the private fire company is now a public fire department.

Your claim appears to be that the new system is an improvement even though people have strictly fewer choices.

Comment author: A-Lurker 17 January 2014 07:59:44AM *  -1 points [-]

The difference is the new system doesn't let houses burn

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 17 January 2014 07:32:54AM *  0 points [-]

Let me give you this hypothetical example: a company can either make $10 a lolly selling type A or it can make $1 selling type B. The 'problem' is that type A is known by the company (but not the public) to be poisonous.

If someone finds out that their poisonous he has the option of buying from a different company. By way of contrast, if all lollies were manufactured by the "department of lollies" and the head of the department decided to sell the poison lollies to meet budget constraints, my only recourse is to not consume lollies.

Notice that the private company can engage in this kind of behavior only if they are sure the defect will never be found out, by contrast the government department has no reason not to produce products with glaring defects, after all it's not like people can switch to a competing product. Furthermore, the the salary of the department head likely isn't even affected by how many people buy the products produced, so he is perfectly happy to waste public resources producing defective products no one wants.

Comment author: A-Lurker 17 January 2014 07:48:26AM *  0 points [-]

I agree those are issues. That's why I said I think the government has no place making twirly drinking straws- the private market does it better. When we talk about fire departments though I think the issue still should be addressed but it doesn't outright kill the concept. its a negative factor which needs to be mitigated but i believe its possible.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 17 January 2014 07:08:56AM 2 points [-]

But just look at one example if you want to understand my point of view; before fire fighters were socialised, there existed a time in the US where people had to pay private companies or have their house burn down.

Now they have to pay (higher) taxes or be arrested for tax evasion. What's your point?

Comment author: A-Lurker 17 January 2014 07:33:18AM 1 point [-]

My point is that fires are put out because they are fires and no fire brigades watch a house burn down anymore. You think it means nothing?

Comment author: blacktrance 17 January 2014 06:34:52AM 2 points [-]

No laws or regulation? I hope you know that most people who advocate for capitalism aren't anarchists, and those of them who are believe in free-market laws. So there's no one who's in favor of "no laws or regulation".

Comment author: A-Lurker 17 January 2014 07:12:25AM -1 points [-]

Yes I do know that. I nearly mentioned that but didn't. There is of course a wide range of regulation beliefs. Some people do advocate for very little. You are right though, no one does call for no laws or regulation. From that some people can also learn that the ideas I have are not new or alien but are actually just an extension or using the ideas already in place.

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 17 January 2014 06:52:27AM 2 points [-]

Human nature. Most people can't see past their own nose. In fact some people have such a massive problem finding empathy for other people that they act, for one example, racist and intolerant to other people. To put it simply, I think human kind has demonstrated how selfish and cruel it can be when left unrestrained. To have an entirely free market and everything private owned would be to let free and even propel all of the nasty things inside people. Just as without laws we will have (more) people hurting each other in society, so too do we need to regulate how people economically interact with each other

And yet you believe the proses of taking a government job magically cures people of all these problems?

Comment author: A-Lurker 17 January 2014 07:02:06AM 0 points [-]

No not by magic and it doesn't fix every single problem. But just look at one example if you want to understand my point of view; before fire fighters were socialised, there existed a time in the US where people had to pay private companies or have their house burn down. Socialism didn't magically cure anything but simply removed some of the opportunity for bad things to happen. Can you tell me how your point refutes the fire brigade example?

Comment author: blacktrance 17 January 2014 05:07:38AM 2 points [-]

As a libertarian, I don't think you and I mean the same things by "capitalism". Could you explain what you mean by "capitalism", and "unrestrained capitalism"?

Comment author: A-Lurker 17 January 2014 06:28:40AM 0 points [-]

What I'm talking about when I say that is private ownership and enterprise. When I say unrestrained that means no laws or regulation. For example there are regulations which make companies write the ingredients on food product labels.

Comment author: Lumifer 17 January 2014 06:13:15AM *  1 point [-]

They were wrong. They caused negative utility. It negatively effected the world

All that about a single downvote..? X-D

I recommend growing thicker skin, quickly.

Comment author: A-Lurker 17 January 2014 06:17:54AM -3 points [-]

lol not negative utility to me- to him! It hasn't hurt my feelings or made me feel like a victim, I'm talking about how someone has misinterpreted and acted out on to the world. Even at that it was such a minor incident that i'm not talking about this in terms of damage done. What i'm really saying is- why is someone acting irrational on a rationality website?

Comment author: TheOtherDave 17 January 2014 05:20:35AM 0 points [-]

When we find it hard to think that things are as they are, and we find it hard to see why things are as they are, that's often a good time to pay close attention to the behavior of the system. Often this has better results than expecting the behavior to be different and complaining when it isn't... though admittedly, sometimes complaining has good results.

Or do you have a third alternative in mind?

Comment author: A-Lurker 17 January 2014 06:13:14AM 0 points [-]

To be honest, I guess my comment was just a complaint with no expected result. It really had no point other than some kind of emotional release

Comment author: TheOtherDave 17 January 2014 05:24:11AM 2 points [-]

Yes, it's an assumption.
An irrational assumption? No, not especially. In the absence of special information about you, it's rational enough to assume you are a typical commenter on this site. If they observe evidence of your exceptionality, a rational observer updates based on that information.

Comment author: A-Lurker 17 January 2014 06:08:37AM -2 points [-]

Hmm I see your point- but if what they did was called 'rational' then there has to be another word for the part where they made the mistake. The mistake was they came to so much of a conclusion about something that they acted on it. They were wrong. They caused negative utility. It negatively effected the world and also their understanding of it. What is that called?

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