Comment author: Amanojack 19 May 2013 01:13:40PM *  -10 points [-]

The Simulation Argument is incoherent in the first place, and no complicated refutation is required to illustrate this. It is simply nonsensical to speak of entities in "another" universe simulating "our" universe, as the word universe already means "everything that exists." (Note that more liberal definitions, like "universe = everything we can even conceive of existing," only serve to show the incoherence more directly: the speaker talks of everything she can conceive of existing "plus more" that she is also conceiving as existing - immediately contradictory.)

By the way, this is the same reason an AI in a box cannot ever know it's in a box. No matter how intelligent it may be, it remains an incoherent notion for an AI in a box to conceive of something "outside the box." Not even a superintelligence gets a free pass on self-contradiction.

In response to Decision Theory FAQ
Comment author: incogn 28 February 2013 05:33:54PM *  9 points [-]

I don't really think Newcomb's problem or any of its variations belong in here. Newcomb's problem is not a decision theory problem, the real difficulty is translating the underspecified English into a payoff matrix.

The ambiguity comes from the the combination of the two claims, (a) Omega being a perfect predictor and (b) the subject being allowed to choose after Omega has made its prediction. Either these two are inconsistent, or they necessitate further unstated assumptions such as backwards causality.

First, let us assume (a) but not (b), which can be formulated as follows: Omega, a computer engineer, can read your code and test run it as many times as he would like in advance. You must submit (simple, unobfuscated) code which either chooses to one- or two-box. The contents of the boxes will depend on Omega's prediction of your code's choice. Do you submit one- or two-boxing code?

Second, let us assume (b) but not (a), which can be formulated as follows: Omega has subjected you to the Newcomb's setup, but because of a bug in its code, its prediction is based on someone else's choice than yours, which has no correlation with your choice whatsoever. Do you one- or two-box?

Both of these formulations translate straightforwardly into payoff matrices and any sort of sensible decision theory you throw at them give the correct solution. The paradox disappears when the ambiguity between the two above possibilities are removed. As far as I can see, all disagreement between one-boxers and two-boxers are simply a matter of one-boxers choosing the first and two-boxers choosing the second interpretation. If so, Newcomb's paradox is not as much interesting as poorly specified. The supposed superiority of TDT over CDT either relies on the paradox not reducing to either of the above or by fiat forcing CDT to work with the wrong payoff matrices.

I would be interested to see an unambiguous and nontrivial formulation of the paradox.

Some quick and messy addenda:

  • Allowing Omega to do its prediction by time travel directly contradicts box B contains either $0 or $1,000,000 before the game begins, and once the game begins even the Predictor is powerless to change the contents of the boxes. Also, this obviously make one-boxing the correct choice.
  • Allowing Omega to accurately simulate the subject reduces to problem to submit code for Omega to evaluate; this is not exactly paradoxical, but then the player is called upon to choose which boxes to take actually means the code then runs and returns its expected value, which clearly reduces to one-boxing.
  • Making Omega an imperfect predictor, with an accuracy of p<1.0 simply creates a superposition of the first and second case above, which still allows for straightforward analysis.
  • Allowing unpredictable, probabilistic strategies violates the supposed predictive power of Omega, but again cleanly reduces to payoff matrices.
  • Finally, the number of variations such as the psychopath button are completely transparent, once you decide between choice is magical and free will and stuff which leads to pressing the button, and the supposed choice is deterministic and there is no choice to make, but code which does not press the button is clearly the most healthy.
In response to comment by incogn on Decision Theory FAQ
Comment author: Amanojack 03 March 2013 05:21:10AM *  2 points [-]

I agree; wherever there is paradox and endless debate, I have always found ambiguity in the initial posing of the question. An unorthodox mathematician named Norman Wildberger just released a new solution by unambiguously specifying what we know about Omega's predictive powers.

Comment author: ArisKatsaris 10 October 2012 09:47:08AM *  -1 points [-]

You said "truth=opinion", but to defend that you ask people not to do something true to you that isn't a matter of opinion, but to "give you a statement that does not resolve to opinion".

That's false reasoning. You didn't originally say "all true statements are produced by people's opinions" which is trivially true according to some definition of "opinions", as all statements people can make are by necessity produced by their minds.

But if e.g. you get in an accident and you lose your leg, nobody will have offered you an opinion, but nonetheless it'll be true that you'll be missing a leg. If you then say it's only a matter of opinion that you'll have lost your leg, I direct you to the well-known Monty Python sketch....

Your failure seems to arise from a very basic confusion between map and territory, where you think that because statements about reality derive from opinion, then reality itself must derive from opinion. That doesn't follow at all. In truth: F(x)-> y and Mind(Reality) -> "Statements about Reality". -- you didn't disprove the existence of x, just by illustrating that all y can be mapped from x through a function F.

Comment author: Amanojack 11 October 2012 08:42:25AM -2 points [-]

truth=opinion

I'd phrase it as "truth is subjective," but I agree in principle. Truth is a word for everyday talk, not for precise discourse. This may sound pretty off-the-wall, but stepping back for a second it should be no surprise that holding to everyday English phrasing would interfere with our efforts to speak precisely. I'll put this more specifically below.

But if e.g. you get in an accident and you lose your leg, nobody will have offered you an opinion, but nonetheless it'll be true that you'll be missing a leg.

This is actually begging the question in that you tacitly assume objective truth by using the standard English phrasing. That there is such a thing as an objective truth is precisely the conclusion you hope to establish. Unfortunately English all but forces you to start by assuming it. Again, carrying over the habits of everyday talk into a precise discussion is a recipe for confusion. We'll have to be a little more careful with phrasing to get at what's going on.

I'd first point out that when you say, "you lose your leg," you are speaking as if there is some omniscient narrator who knows "the objective facts of reality." Parent's point is exactly that there is no such omniscience. There are only individuals, including you and I, who have [subjective] experiences.

To get specific, we would have to identify who it is that witnesses the loss of Parent's leg. If you had said, "e.g. you find that you get in an accident and that you lose your leg," it would not be convincing to follow up with, "but nonetheless it'll be true that you'll be missing a leg."

We could all have witnessed (what we experience as) Parent losing a leg. It will be "true" for us (everyday talk), but none among us is an omniscient narrator qualified to state any more than what we experienced. Nowhere is any objective truth to be found. If we were to call it an "objective truth," we would simply be referencing the fact that all three of our experiences seem to match up. It would be at best an inter-subjective "truth," but this "truth" is a lie to someone else who thinks they see Parent with both legs still attached. To avoid confusion, we had best call it a subjective report or something. Hence, while perhaps not ideal, "truth=opinion" is not too bad a way to put it after all.

Comment author: shminux 10 May 2012 03:47:21PM *  1 point [-]

Anti-epistemology is a huge actual danger of actual life,

So it is, but I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a (possibly very exotic) real-life example where "epistemic rationality gives way to instrumental rationality."? Just to address the "hypothetical scenario" objection.

EDIT: Does the famous Keynes quote "Markets can remain irrational a lot longer than you and I can remain solvent." qualify?

Comment author: Amanojack 10 May 2012 06:49:01PM 3 points [-]

Any time you have a bias you cannot fully compensate for, there is a potential benefit to putting instrumental rationality above epistemic.

One fear I was unable to overcome for many years was that of approaching groups of people. I tried all sorts of things, but the best piece advice turned out to be: "Think they'll like you." Simply believing that eliminates the fear and aids in my social goals, even though it sometimes proves to have been a false belief, especially with regard to my initial reception. Believing that only 3 out of 4 groups will like or welcome me initially and 1 will rebuff me, even though this may be the case, has not been as useful as believing that they'll all like me.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 07 May 2012 08:52:29PM *  13 points [-]

With minus 373 Karma points for the last 30 days under your belt, I think you should take a hint and stop posting. If this comment is upvoted/not convincingly disputed (by others), I'm going to start removing some of the worse comments you make in the near future.

Comment author: Amanojack 08 May 2012 08:37:11PM *  4 points [-]

He's making some interesting points, and he gets extra credit in my view for taking so radical a view while usually remaining reasonable. I find his railing against prediction to be puzzling, but his semantic points and discussion of Ptolemaic explanations have given me a lot to think about.

I also noticed that even some of his friendly, reasoned posts were being downvoted to the same extreme negative levels, which seems unwarranted. He has posted too much without familiarizing himself with the norms here, but he shows sincerity and willingness to learn and adapt. He got a little testy a few times, but he also apologized a lot.

All in all, with a few notable exceptions, it looks like he is getting downvoted mainly for unfamiliarity with LW posting style and for disagreeing with "settled science" (I myself am not too partial to that term). Perhaps also for some unconventional spellings and other idiosyncrasies.

I'm open to being corrected on this, but I think I have read this entire thread and I am pretty sure Monkeymind is not deliberately trolling. High inferential distance feels like trolling so often that it's almost a forum trope. I myself am enjoying some of his posts and the responses.

I'll change my mind if he continues with the present posting style, though.

Comment author: Monkeymind 02 May 2012 03:54:16PM *  -2 points [-]

x

Comment author: Amanojack 08 May 2012 08:08:39PM *  1 point [-]

You're making a ton of interesting points, but please succinctify (a lot!). I mean, let people reply and stuff. I feel sorry for you writing all that knowing almost no one will see it. It's obvious you're reading LW classic posts and making discoveries, and then immediately turning around and applying them, which is great. I just think you'd do well to steep yourself in the posting norms of this forum so you can participate in a more fruitful way. Again, I for one would like to hear well-reasoned radical views.

Comment author: Monkeymind 16 April 2012 11:51:41PM *  -14 points [-]

BYE!

EDIT: What negative thumbs for leaving? I said I'll be back. Just giving you a chance to gather your thought s so you can answer my questions next time. And when I get back, I'll know far more than I do now. I'll either be apologizing for being so dull, or 'splainin' why you are dull!

Comment author: Amanojack 08 May 2012 07:58:55PM *  -1 points [-]

To be honest, you sound bitter or something, although given the difference of opinion being as radical as it is, that is pretty understandable (so are the downvotes, for the same reason). Maybe let it cool off for a bit. I have an interest in hearing what you think after you have spent more time here.

You remind me of Silas Barta, and I think we could use more people who radically disagree with major pieces of LW, because it is good practice if nothing else.

Comment author: Monkeymind 15 April 2012 12:37:06PM *  -6 points [-]

x

Comment author: Amanojack 08 May 2012 07:46:13PM *  0 points [-]

I think your position is just too radical here.

Ultimately all science has to eventually be used for prediction or it is useless except for aesthetic purposes. However, I do sympathize with what (I think) your main point was before, that prediction is no measure of a theory if the "theory" is just curve-fitting (it is, of course, a measure of the utility of the curve or equation that the data was fit to). That is really just common sense, though, so you may have meant something else.

Comment author: Monkeymind 15 April 2012 11:31:40PM *  -3 points [-]

x AND I don't think I know better. I only suspect that the SM I am describing will get better results because the principals make better sense than what we are currently using.

But I want to elaborate on something I said about why questions. Been thinking about this the last few days, after being asked what good is knowing why.

You ask why and: your parents say "Because I said so." your teachers say "because smart people say so" your preachers say "because the bible says so."

You get tired or maybe conditioned by this and so: You stop asking the why questions.

If we had more of the why answers maybe the what questions would make more sense. Maybe we would have less what questions.

Comment author: Amanojack 08 May 2012 07:40:50PM -2 points [-]

This is a LessWrong idea two: play the why game, keep asking "why" all the way down. Can't find the post on this though :/

Comment author: Monkeymind 14 April 2012 01:15:49AM *  -7 points [-]

x

Comment author: Amanojack 08 May 2012 07:38:14PM *  -2 points [-]

Whoah, thanks for this. I get what you're saying now: you oppose Ptolemaic explanations. I think these are good points - why's this sensible post being downvoted? Even if there is something wrong with the reasoning, these seem like good, interesting questions to me.

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