Comment author: iceman 26 July 2012 10:05:55PM *  47 points [-]

Maybe the word "evangelical" isn't strictly correct. (A quick Google search suggests that I had cached the phrase from this discussion.) I'd like to point out an example of an incident that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

(Before anyone asks, yes, we’re polyamorous – I am in long-term relationships with three women, all of whom are involved with more than one guy. Apologies in advance to any 19th-century old fogies who are offended by our more advanced culture. Also before anyone asks: One of those is my primary who I’ve been with for 7+ years, and the other two did know my real-life identity before reading HPMOR, but HPMOR played a role in their deciding that I was interesting enough to date.)

This comment was made by Eliezer under the name of this community in the author's notes to one of LessWrongs's largest recruiting tools. I remember when I first read this, I kind of flipped out. Professor Quirrell wouldn't have written this, I thought. It was needlessly antagonistic, it squandered a bunch of positive affect, there was little to be gained from this digression, it was blatant signaling--it was so obviously the wrong thing to do and yet it was published anyway.

A few months before that was written, I had cut a fairly substantial cheque to the Singularity Institute. I want to purchase AI risk reduction, not fund a phyg. Blocks of text like the above do not make me feel comfortable that I am doing the former and not the later. I am not alone here.

Back when I only lurked here and saw the first PUA fights, I was in favor of the PUA discussion ban because if LessWrong wants to be a movement that either tries to raise the sanity waterline or maximizes the probability of solving the Friendly AI problem, it needs to be as inclusive as possible and have as few ugh fields that immediately drive away new members. I now think an outright ban would do more harm than good, but the ugh field remains and is counterproductive.

Comment author: AndrewH 27 July 2012 04:55:59AM 7 points [-]

I can only give you one upvote, so please take my comment as a second.

Comment author: drethelin 26 July 2012 08:12:18PM 4 points [-]

Well, hiding things like this or stopping doing them is possibly even worse as far as image is concerned.

There's also the issue of demonstrating rationality. If they claim to that being rational will change your life and make you happier, but seem to live exactly like everyone else, then their claims hold less force than if being more rational makes you do seemingly weird things. There's arguments to be made that making an effort to tone down the weirdness is counter to the goal of promoting radically different means of thought than most people are used to.

I'm pro-poly, pro-cuddlepiles, and pro-cohabiting, I just think it's silly to do all these things and then act shocked when someone else points out that they are weird.

Comment author: AndrewH 26 July 2012 08:43:26PM 6 points [-]

Lets be honest about 'demonstrating rationality' here. If your goals are to have much more romping in the bedroom, they have done well here. However many of these techniques speak to me of cults, the ones with the leader getting all the brainwashed girls.

A much better sign of rationality is to have success in career, in money, in fame -- to be Successful. Not to just have more fun. Being successful hasn't been much demonstrated, though I am hopeful still.

Comment author: drethelin 25 July 2012 10:39:35PM 42 points [-]

Oh no, someone told the internet about your polyamorous cuddle-piling cohabiting group of people! Did you not expect those things to get talked about it if you achieved any level of fame? Considering the judgement laid down on politicians for hints of inappropriateness, you should either make your relationships more normal and mainstream, or just learn to deal with people attacking you for the weirdness.

Comment author: AndrewH 26 July 2012 07:57:31PM 6 points [-]

To be honest, as a long term supporter of SIAI, this sort of social experimentation seems like a serious political blunder. I personally have no problem with finding new (or not part of current western culture) techniques of... social interactions... if you believe it will make yourself and others 'better' for some definition of better.

But if you are serious in actually getting the world behind the movement, this is Bad. "Why should I believe you when you seem to be amoral?". I have more arguments on this matter but they are easy to generate anyway.

Another thought: one way to think of it might be that to achieve your goals personal sacrifice is necessary and applauded: 'I'm too busy saving the world to have a girlfriend.'. Perhaps there are better examples than that. Maybe it's time to get rid of couches?

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 18 April 2012 01:05:10PM 44 points [-]

Unbreakable Vows are ridiculously broken, as Harry briefly observes in Ch. 74. They're even more ridiculous in fanfictions where people can just grab a wand and swear something on their life and magic and thereby create a magically binding vow. I had to nerf the hell out of their activation costs just to make the MoR-verse keep running. I can't depict a society with zero agency problems, a perfect public commitment process and an infinite trust engine unless the whole story is about that.

Comment author: AndrewH 18 April 2012 07:56:09PM 3 points [-]

With Unbreakable Vows, the... arbitrator?... sacrifices a portion of their magic permanently yes? One issue is that, after you die you might need that magic for something, like the more magic you have the more pleasant (or less!) magically created heaven is. In any case, even if magical society was fine with sacrifices, they might reason thus, and not use unbreakable vows. Such a society would make investigation (magical!) into potential afterlife a top priority, so lack of use of such a ritual might be compensated by finding out there is a heaven (or hell).

In response to Brain Preservation
Comment author: khafra 28 March 2012 02:38:19PM 6 points [-]

My odds aren't that low, but I'm similarly pessimistic because of the flexibility of one particular step--recovery of my body in time for meaningful information preservation. Most people who die young die of accidents, not protracted illnesses, which means quick vitrification is extremely unlikely. Term life insurance is around an order of magnitude cheaper than whole life insurance, but it will only protect you while relatively young; leaving you on the hook during your retirement-at-fixed-income years where the bulk of the death probability distribution is, and where timely vitrification is likelier.

In response to comment by khafra on Brain Preservation
Comment author: AndrewH 31 March 2012 08:27:35AM 0 points [-]

Clearly if you see larger costs as you age, then the incorrect course of action is to simply do nothing and find when you are old, you have no money to pay for the policy. If you don't want to spend a large amount when you are old, then save now. Perhaps if you save/invest enough, you will have enough money to simply by a cryonics policy directly.

Comment author: wobster109 20 August 2011 07:08:41AM 6 points [-]

I've just a couple days ago returned home from Rationality Camp, and to the best of my estimates, about half the participants prefer this ending, and also, among rationalists that I encounter elsewhere, a non-trivial portion of them prefer this ending as well. What am I saying? Other than the mass suicides, it is not immediately obvious that this original ending is "awful" in any way.

Comment author: AndrewH 29 January 2012 02:48:12AM 5 points [-]

Other than the mass suicides...

And including the mass suicides? remember that in this story, 6 billion people become 1 in a million, and over 25% of people died in this branch of the story. Destroying Huygens resulted in 15 billion deaths.

As they say, shut up and multiply.

In response to comment by smk on Polyhacking
Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 08 September 2011 01:06:30AM 15 points [-]

Perhaps you could start by saying, "I can only tell you if you're asking for information and you promise not to argue." I don't know how practical that is in real life.

LWers could have a convention for saying to each other, "Please tell me so that I know how I was perceived by you. I will not argue and tell you that you perceived me differently, I will not blame the messenger, and I will not subject you to the unpleasant experience of hearing me offer to change."

Comment author: AndrewH 08 September 2011 02:09:40AM 4 points [-]

At first, I thought that making a new convention is the wrong way to go about it. How many conventions should we need to remember then? making new conventions all over the place for LWer's will be too difficult, too many different social rules to juggle.

For example, in such a situation, as in asking a person out, you would need to think about the LW community conventions and then normal conventions when deciding actions. But then, you couldn't do better unless you allow for change.

If a community is to be truly made, perhaps a set of conventions can be constructed so that, this convention will slot nicely into an easily searchable hierarchy: Relationships -> relationship changing -> approaches/dating requests. You could make an iPhone app so that the LWer looking for love (or wishing to do some social action) can quickly and discretely check up the currently accepted conventions/guidelines. If someone deviates, you can have all sorts of fun deciding to call them on it.

Comment author: jmmcd 28 August 2011 11:20:26PM 1 point [-]

Dictators and pop music producers: the only good thing about them is that they eventually die, or lose power. Gaddaffi is gone. Now Cowell could be with us for eternity? A strong argument against signing up for cryonics.

Comment author: AndrewH 29 August 2011 12:01:54AM 0 points [-]

Are you going to kill yourself now? given that you are only living because you know someday you will be alive and Cowell will not be. Because not signing up for cryonics is saying that you don't want to live for longer than ~90 years :)

Comment author: Chala 28 April 2011 11:44:41AM 0 points [-]

Not this semester, as I didn't decide what I was going to do until a month in ;) I'll be doing compsci 101 next semester though.

Comment author: AndrewH 28 April 2011 07:35:30PM 0 points [-]

Most interesting! I would also recommend CompSci 111 even if you are skilled with computers. It introduces you to a wide range of skills.

You might even bump into me in the corridor.

Comment author: Chala 07 April 2011 12:18:31PM *  1 point [-]

Yeah I realise its a year old, but its also the first thread that shows up when searching for "Auckland" so it seems reasonable that it may get the occasional traffic ;). Also, its my understanding that the OP would have gotten a notification that I commented on this post.

Comment author: AndrewH 28 April 2011 08:34:25AM 0 points [-]

I noticed. I'll be setting up a new meet up soon due to someone else requesting it. Auckland is positively on fire with rationality it seems! bring water buckets.

You are doing computer science now? that's most interesting. Are you taking any stage 1 compsci papers this semester?

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