Comment author: AustinLorenz 12 July 2013 12:47:26AM 1 point [-]

I finally had time to read this, and I must say, that's an extremely creative premise. I'm puzzled by the proof of theorem 3.1, however. It claims "By inspection of FairBot, PA⊢◻(FB(FB) = C)-->FB(FB=C)."

However, by inspection of fairbot, the antecedent of the conditional should be FB(FB) = C rather than ◻(FB(FB) = C). The code says "if it's a theorem of PA that X cooperates with me, then cooperate." It doesn't say "if it's a theorem of PA that it's provable in PA that X cooperates with me, then cooperate." So I don't believe you can appeal to Lob's theorem in this case. .

Comment author: AustinLorenz 11 June 2013 01:14:39AM 0 points [-]

I'm not sure if this post is obsolete, but it was linked to by a recent post, so I will provide feedback.

The translation to the formal version goes from "if a theory T has a short proof that any proof of T's inconsistency must be long, then T is inconsistent" to "if T proves in n symbols that 'T can't prove a falsehood in f(n) symbols", then T is inconsistent.'"

But inconsistency is not the same as proving a falsehood. Assuming that PA is consistent, the theory PA+~Con(PA) is consistent, since PA cannot prove its own consistency, but this consistent theory proves the false theorem ~ConPA.

Also, there exists no truth predicate Tru(n) within any consistent extension of PA--otherwise, we could formulate a liar paradox. Hence the notion of a "falsehood" is not expressible in our formal system.

In the proof, we define a program R which enumerates the theorems of the theory T that can be proved with g(n) symbols or less. Such a program must describe the formal system T to utilize its axioms and rules of inference. Assume that T is describable using t symbols. Then the program R requires log g(n) bits to describe the halting condition and t bits to describe T, so we can write the program R using around log g(n) + t bits.

This means that when R is searching for proofs about its behavior of length less than g(n), some of the g(n) symbols will have to describe R itself using log g(n) + t bits. This means that if R does not find a proof, it has only established that there is no proof in T that R halts or not of g(n) - (log g(n) + t) symbols. There may well exist a proof in T that R halts or not of g(n) symbols.

Now T is supposed to prove in n symbols that "T can't prove a falsehood in f(n) symbols," but n << g(n) and exp g(n) << f(n). This implies that log f(n) >> n, which means that n symbols do not suffice to describe a number of size f(n). Thus it is impossible to prove that "T can't prove a falsehood in f(n) symbols" using n, or slightly more than n, symbols.

Comment author: Qiaochu_Yuan 07 June 2013 09:13:53PM *  11 points [-]

It means consistent. PA + Con(PA) means PA together with the axiom that PA is consistent (which can be expressed in PA because PA can express "PA proves X," so "PA is consistent" can be expressed as "PA does not prove a contradiction").

Comment author: AustinLorenz 10 June 2013 08:49:23PM 4 points [-]

Actually, "not proving a falsehood" is not the same as being consistent; assuming that PA is consistent, the theory PA+~Con(PA) is also consistent, but proves the false statement ~Con(PA). Consistency is the weaker condition of not proving both a formula and its negation.