Comment author: ChristianKl 09 December 2015 03:42:34PM *  2 points [-]

The existence of the Vatican state today, and that of the Holy Roman Empire in Medieval times, I think proves you wrong.

The Holy Roman Empire had a deal whereby you have worldly rulers on the one hand and the pope being the spiritual leader on the other hand. Popes supported the concept of the devine right of kings that was supposed to be given out by God to King David and passed down from David via inherentance to the present kings.

Islam on the other hand considers only God a valid source of laws and doesn't think that God has given human kings the right to make laws the way Christianity thinks with the devine right of kings.

If you think that the devine right of kings wasn't important in Medieval times I think you are massively misreading history.

Comment author: Autodidact420 11 December 2015 08:56:15PM *  -1 points [-]

Disclosure: I haven't read the full string of comments

I'm pretty sure you're a bit off on the Islamic side of things though.

a valid source of laws and doesn't think that God has given human kings the right to make laws the way Christianity thinks with the devine right of kings.

Kings' claim to rule seems to be fairly similar to that of an Islamic caliph, who are supposed to be prophets selected by God himself, and are able to create laws/etc. as he would want basically.

Comment author: Gleb_Tsipursky 11 December 2015 04:54:30AM 1 point [-]

Yup, both good questions.

For the answer to the first - about effectiveness - see the two paragraphs from the paragraph starting with "For some." It's pretty hard to measure exact impact of marketing dollars, so the best equivalent is the combination of how widely read an article is, with specific evidence of its impact on an individual, a combination of quantitative and qualitative approaches. Thus, we can see that this article was widely shared, over 1K times, which means it was likely read by over 100K people. Moreover, the article is clearly impactful, as we can see from the specific comment of the person who was impacted, and his sway with others in his role as group leader. We can't see the large numbers of people who were impacted but chose not to respond, of course.

For the answer to the second, donations to AMF don't do that much to mitigate existential risk. However, getting people turned to Effective Altruism does, since then they become familiar with the topic of existential risk, which occupies a lot of attention, including MIRI among effective altruists.

The problem with selling existential risk to the broad audience is that honestly, they generally don't buy it. It's hard for them to connect emotionally to AI and other existential risk issues. Much easier to connect emotionally to GiveWell, etc. However, once they get into Effective Altruism, they learn about existential risk, and are more oriented toward donating to MIRI, etc.

This is the benefit of being strategic and long-term oriented - rational - about donating to InIn. Getting more people engaged with these issues will result in more good than one's own direct donations to MIRI, I think. But obviously, that's my perspective, otherwise I wouldn't have started InIn and would have just donated directly to MIRI and other causes that I held important. It's up to you to evaluate the evidence. One path that many donors who give to InIn choose to do is to spread your donations, giving some to InIn and some to MIRI. It's up to you.

Comment author: Autodidact420 11 December 2015 05:44:46AM 0 points [-]

I'm in the middle of writing an essay due tomorrow morning so pardon the slightly off topic and short reply (I'll get back to you on the other matters later) but I am particularly curious about one topic that comes up here a lot, as far as I can tell, on discussions of existential risk. The topic is the AI and its relations to existential risk. By the sounds of it I may hold an extremely unpopular opinion, while I acknowledge that the AI could pose an existential risk, my personal ideas (which I don't have the time to discuss here or the points required to make a full post on the subject matter)is that an AI is probably our best bet at mitigating existential risk and maximizing the utility, security, and knowledge I previously mentioned. Does that put me at odds with the general consensus on the issue here?

Comment author: helldalgo 07 December 2015 10:14:39AM *  5 points [-]

I've heard criticism that he's only doing it "for the publicity." My answer to that is "Who cares?" but this doesn't satisfy some people. As though you have to do the financial equivalent of self-flagellation to be sincerely altruistic.

EDIT for clarity: "Who cares" about why he's doing it, as long as he's doing it.

Comment author: Autodidact420 10 December 2015 08:02:00PM *  0 points [-]

I've heard other criticisms that he is just going to give it to a charity fund in a similar manner to other billionaires who place their children at control of the charity and then use it as a way to pass on wealth to their kids without any taxation. Not entirely sure of the credibility of the claim that Mark is doing it, but I do know that this scheme has been tried and worked for others before.

Comment author: Gleb_Tsipursky 10 December 2015 05:58:22PM 0 points [-]

This depends on what your ideas are regarding effective charities. For example, you can consider MIRI getting money to be the optimal outcome. In that case, is it better for you to give to MIRI directly, or for you to give to a meta-charity that persuades others to give to MIRI? My point in the article is that meta-charities are a better return on investment for rational donors than direct-action charities, such as MIRI, which directly does the research itself. On the other hand, one aspect of the work of Intentional Insights is to encourage people to give money to MIRI and other organizations mitigating existential risk.

Comment author: Autodidact420 10 December 2015 07:54:11PM *  1 point [-]

I agree to some extent, depending on how efficient advertising for a specific charity through a meta-charity is. I see what you're saying now after re-reading it, to be honest I had only very briefly skimmed it last night/morning. Curious, do have any stats on how effective Intentional Insights is at gathering more money for these other charities than is given to them directly?

Also, how does In In decide whether something is mitigating existential risk? I'm not overly familiar with the topic but donations to "Against Malaria Foundation" and others mentioned don't sound like the specific sort of charity I'm mostly interested in.

Comment author: Autodidact420 10 December 2015 08:34:04AM *  2 points [-]

I don't have a lot of time so this comment will be rather short and largely insufficient at fully addressing your post. That said, I tend to side with the idea presented in this article: http://www.nickbostrom.com/astronomical/waste.html

Essentially, I fail to see how anything other than advancing technology at the present could be the most effective route. How would you defend your claims of effective charity against the idea that advancing technology and minimizing existential risks instead of giving to those currently in need are ultimately the most effective ways for humans to raise utility long-term?

EDIT: I suppose it would be worth noting here that I have a fairly specific value set in place already. Basically, I favor a specific view of Utilitarianism that has three component values I've decided (and would argue) are each important: Intelligence, happiness, and security. In my thinking these three form a sort of triangle, with intelligence [and knowledge] leading to "higher happiness" and allowing for a "higher security" (intentionally adapting to threats), while also be intrinsically valuable. Security in a general sense basically meaning the ability to resist threats and exist for an extended time, bolstering happiness and knowledge by preserving them for extended periods of time. Happiness, of course, is the typical utilitarian ideal, this is inherently good. And as previously mentioned knowledge allows higher level happiness and security allows prolonged happiness.

Given this model, or a more standard model as I don't have time to fully articulate my idea, the charities you listed seem to be somewhat ineffective compared to other more direct attempts at increasing security and knowledge, which I would argue are the two values which we should currently be focused on increasing even at the cost of present-day happiness.

Not to diminsh what you're doing, as it is still much better than not giving anything at all or giving to less effective charities given your goal. More so to convince me to donate to these charities instead of otherwise using my money.

Comment author: Lumifer 10 December 2015 07:00:16AM 1 point [-]

but it seems like you guys are generally intelligent

Nah, we just fake it :-P

Comment author: Autodidact420 10 December 2015 08:10:41AM 1 point [-]

I feel like intelligence is similar to logic or grammar and faces the dunning kurger effects full force essentially. As they state in the abstract of their work: Their lack of skill deprives them not only of the ability to produce correct responses, but also of the expertise necessary to surmise that they are not producing them.

If you're able to "fake" being intelligent, you require the ability to produce the "intelligent" response, and the ability to recognize when you're not being intelligent. So if you don't have it, you can't really fake it... I mean, unless you're moderately skilled and meticulously research and craft your responses specifically for effect, but even then that means you're able to do so effectively...

In response to Engineering Religion
Comment author: Autodidact420 10 December 2015 06:15:45AM 1 point [-]

I'm new here and not sure exactly what you expect when someone links, but it seems like you guys are generally intelligent so:

http://www.enotes.com/research-starters/sociological-theories-religion-structural

It sounds like what you're asking (with regards to the function of religion) is something that has been covered a great deal by the structural-functionalist sociological approach. If you're willing to read up on it there's a lot of information out there on the topic. Hope that helps! If you'd prefer I answer your question on here more directly feel free to ask, I'm in the middle of finals and haven't read up too much on the topic myself so I'd have to do some research before getting back to you.

Comment author: LessRightToo 30 November 2015 01:13:20PM *  0 points [-]

I'll see if I can find the books I referred earlier regarding intelligence testing for people interested in delving further into this topic.

EDIT: One interesting factoid I recall - IQ tests were originally developed to detect impaired mental function only. However, performance on these tests is now used to justify claims of superior mental function. As I recall, among experts this use of IQ testing is controversial.

Comment author: Autodidact420 10 December 2015 06:11:04AM 2 points [-]

IQ testing is controversial in some ways but supported in others.

In support of IQ, some forms of IQ tests ('g' loaded tests) tend to reproduce similar scores for the same individual. Further, this score is linked to various life outcomes - higher numbers of patents created, higher academic success rates, higher income, less time in jail, etc. As well as all of this, IQ has been found to be hereditary through twin studies. Lots of literature on this suggest that whatever IQ measures, even if it's not intelligence, it's useful to have in western societies.

But here's why it's controversial: Firstly, there is a potential gender and racial bias. Certain races tend to do better than others on average even controlling for socioeconomic status and the like. Men tend to be at the extreme ends of the scale, with many more falling into the high scoring ranges (2+ standard deviations) than women as well as in the low scoring ranges. Secondly, langauge barriers are another large problem with any verbal-based IQ test, which restrict those tests ability to accurately gauge a test taker who is writing with English as their non-native tongue. Thirdly, there are arguments about how a single number could accurately represent all of human intelligence. In tangent with this, there is debate about what constitutes intelligence, and how we should group it. Should emotional intelligence count? Should physical (kinetic) intelligence count? Should math count as much as verbal? Should problem solving count? Etc.

Against the last point, ignoring the less traditional sorts of intelligence (e.g. kinetic [bodily movement] intelligence), 'g' loaded tests support the idea that even if you're bad at math, if you've got a high 'g' score you'll likely be above average at math if you're high above average in 'g' loaded verbal or logical reasoning tests. So it seems that even if you're deficient or exceptionally good at one area, there is some sort of underlying factor that does help explain at least some difference in the traditional realms. And that underlying factor is what 'g' loaded tests are supposed to assess.

Also worth noting is the decreasing returns after about the second deviation. Although it does continue to have increasing effects in some areas, benefits in other areas start to drop off. It has been argued that IQ can help find a limiting factor but after that limiting factor (around 120-130 IQ on a 15 SD scale) it stops being as useful for prediction. To explain in a better way, "genius" has stopped being linked to a specific IQ. Instead, it's thought that a minimum IQ of around 130 ~ 120 is needed to be a genius, but there is no set point of IQ where you are automatically a genius. You could have 180 IQ and not be a genius, or you could have 120 IQ and be a genius.

As far as I know (I might be wrong) IQ is especially useful at finding exceptionally low-skilled individuals.

So largely it's controversial in that it represents a universal intelligence, It's less controversial that it's some sort of useful construct which predicts a great deal of life outcomes in western society with decent accuracy within the groups it was designed to test (Western-cultured English speakers in particular)