Comment author: Eugine_Nier 01 December 2012 04:39:26AM 1 point [-]

My working theory is that they were trolling.

Comment author: Cakoluchiam 01 December 2012 09:30:26PM 0 points [-]

Either way, should we or shouldn't we have trusted the rest of their answers to be statistically reliable?

Comment author: CCC 30 November 2012 07:25:53AM 2 points [-]

My personal belief is that if there is a "god", he is quite probably much like a video game programmer, who can set up a universe like an MMO and let it run "infinitely" in "real-time", but, being constrained to a similar time-scale as the "players", is unable to make a large number of fine-grained adjustments to local variables at the immediate behest of said players (i.e. "answering prayers").

Given that all the 'players' are running in the universe in question, being able to make a large number of fine-grained adjustments to local variables in an instant (in-universe time) is simple; simply pause the simulation.

...unless some of you out there are actually players from outside the universe, in which case the rest of us would appreciate a hint.

In response to comment by CCC on 2012 Survey Results
Comment author: Cakoluchiam 01 December 2012 09:24:30PM 1 point [-]

What, the myriad prophets of revealed religions and cults aren't enough of a hint for you?

Comment author: gwern 29 November 2012 11:15:29PM *  16 points [-]

Hypothesis: those directly affected by the troll policy (trolls) are more likely to have strong disapproval than those unaffected by the troll policy are to have strong approval.

Hypothesis rejected when we operationalize 'trolls' as 'low karma':

R> lwtroll <- lw[!is.na(lw$KarmaScore),]
R> lwtroll <- lwtroll[lwtroll$TrollToll=="Agree with toll" | lwtroll$TrollToll=="Disagree with toll",]
R> # disagree=3, agree=2; so:
R> # if positive correlation, higher karma associates with disagreement
R> # if negative correlation, higher karma associates with agreement
R> # we are testing hypothesis higher karma = lower score/higher agreement
R> cor.test(as.integer(lwtroll$TrollToll), lwtroll$KarmaScore, alternative="less")
Pearson's product-moment correlation
data: as.integer(lwtroll$TrollToll) and lwtroll$KarmaScore t = 1.362, df = 315, p-value = 0.9129
alternative hypothesis: true correlation is less than 0 95 percent confidence interval:
-1.0000 0.1679 sample estimates:
cor 0.07653
R> # a log-transform of the karma scores doesn't help:
R> cor.test(as.integer(lwtroll$TrollToll), log1p(lwtroll$KarmaScore), alternative="less")
Pearson's product-moment correlation
data: as.integer(lwtroll$TrollToll) and log1p(lwtroll$KarmaScore) t = 2.559, df = 315, p-value = 0.9945
alternative hypothesis: true correlation is less than 0 95 percent confidence interval:
-1.0000 0.2322 sample estimates:
cor 0.1427

Plots of the scores, regular and log-transformed:

<code>plot(lwtroll$TrollToll, lwtroll$KarmaScore)</code>

<code>plot(lwtroll$TrollToll, log1p(lwtroll$KarmaScore))</code>

In response to comment by gwern on 2012 Survey Results
Comment author: Cakoluchiam 29 November 2012 11:25:52PM 15 points [-]

If this were anywhere but a site dedicated to rationality, I would expect trolls to self-report their karma scores much higher on a survey than they actually are, but that data is pretty staggering. I accept the rejection of the hypothesis, and withdraw my opinion insofar as it applies to this site.

Comment author: Cakoluchiam 29 November 2012 10:47:40PM 0 points [-]

Would someone who created a computer that created the universe count as a god? I can easily write computer games with more complex behavior than I feel capable of fully comprehending, but I would not consider that computer program an intelligent entity. I can imagine that someone more educated and with a higher mental capacity than I could similarly write a computer program that is capable of creating and maintaining in simulation a universe with the global constants and initial conditions necessary to produce intelligent life without the program actually qualifying as intelligent itself.

My personal belief is that if there is a "god", he is quite probably much like a video game programmer, who can set up a universe like an MMO and let it run "infinitely" in "real-time", but, being constrained to a similar time-scale as the "players", is unable to make a large number of fine-grained adjustments to local variables at the immediate behest of said players (i.e. "answering prayers"). Someday we may get a version 2.0 release which allows third-party plugins so players can hack the universe to answer their own prayers, but I don't place a high conditional probability on that happening within my projected lifetime.

Comment author: Cakoluchiam 29 November 2012 10:55:57PM *  1 point [-]

Hell, if the mathematical universe hypothesis is correct, then somewhere out there in the universe there is, with no intelligent priors, a collection of particles in the form of a computer, simulating a universe containing intelligent entities.

Comment author: fubarobfusco 29 November 2012 07:51:27PM *  7 points [-]

Look again at the survey questions:

P(Supernatural)
What is the probability that supernatural events, defined as those involving ontologically basic mental entities, have occurred since the beginning of the universe?

P(God)
What is the probability that there is a god, defined as a supernatural (see above) intelligent entity who created the universe?

A simulator is not a god because gods are ontologically basic, while simulators are not.

Comment author: Cakoluchiam 29 November 2012 10:47:40PM 0 points [-]

Would someone who created a computer that created the universe count as a god? I can easily write computer games with more complex behavior than I feel capable of fully comprehending, but I would not consider that computer program an intelligent entity. I can imagine that someone more educated and with a higher mental capacity than I could similarly write a computer program that is capable of creating and maintaining in simulation a universe with the global constants and initial conditions necessary to produce intelligent life without the program actually qualifying as intelligent itself.

My personal belief is that if there is a "god", he is quite probably much like a video game programmer, who can set up a universe like an MMO and let it run "infinitely" in "real-time", but, being constrained to a similar time-scale as the "players", is unable to make a large number of fine-grained adjustments to local variables at the immediate behest of said players (i.e. "answering prayers"). Someday we may get a version 2.0 release which allows third-party plugins so players can hack the universe to answer their own prayers, but I don't place a high conditional probability on that happening within my projected lifetime.

In response to 2012 Survey Results
Comment author: gwern 29 November 2012 05:53:17PM 10 points [-]

The 2011 survey ran 33 days and collected 1090 responses. This year's survey ran 23 days and collected 1195 responses.

Why did you close it early? That seems entirely unnecessary.

One friend didn't see the survey because she hangs out on the #lesswrong channel more than the main site.

I put a link and exhortation prominently in the #lesswrong topic from the day the survey opened to the day it closed.

M (trans f->m): 3, 0.3% / F (trans m->f): 16, 1.3%

3 vs 16 seems like quite a difference, even allowing for the small sample size. Is this consistent with the larger population?

Prefer polyamorous: 155, 13.1%...NUMBER OF CURRENT PARTNERS:... [>1 partners = 4.5%]

So ~3x more people prefer polyamory than are actually engaged in it...

Referred by HPMOR: 262, 22.1%

Impressive.

gwern.net: 5 people

Woot! And I'm not even trying or linking LW especially often.

(I am also pleased by the nicotine and modafinil results, although you dropped a number in 'Never: 76.5%')

TROLL TOLL POLICY: Disapprove: 194, 16.4% Approve: 178, 15%

So more people are against than for. Not exactly a mandate for its use.

Are people who understand quantum mechanics are more likely to believe in Many Worlds? We perform a t-test, checking whether one's probability of the MWI being true depends on whether or not one can solve the Schrodinger Equation. People who could solve the equation had on average a 54.3% probability of MWI, compared to 51.3% in those who could not. The p-value is 0.26; there is a 26% probability this occurs by chance. Therefore, we fail to establish that people's probability of MWI varies with understanding of quantum mechanics.

Sounds like you did a two-tailed test. shminux's hypothesis, which he has stated several times IIRC, is that people who can solve it will not be taken in by Eliezer's MWI flim-flam, as it were, and would be less likely to accept MWI. So you should've been running a one-tailed t-test to reject the hypothesis that the can-solvers are less MWI'd. The p-value would then be something like 0.13 by symmetry.

In response to comment by gwern on 2012 Survey Results
Comment author: Cakoluchiam 29 November 2012 10:23:55PM *  4 points [-]

TROLL TOLL POLICY: Disapprove: 194, 16.4% Approve: 178, 15%

So more people are against than for. Not exactly a mandate for its use.

Hypothesis: those directly affected by the troll policy (trolls) are more likely to have strong disapproval than those unaffected by the troll policy are to have strong approval.

In my opinion, a strong moderation policy should require a plurality vote in the negative (over approval and abstention) to fail a motion to increase security, rather than a direct comparison to the approval. (withdrawn as it applies to LW, whose trolls are apparently less trolly than other sites I'm used to)

In response to comment by gwern on 2012 Survey Results
Comment author: gwillen 29 November 2012 09:13:28PM 0 points [-]

Well, I think you can probably break it down as follows, given just the data we have:

  • 0 partners
  • 1 partner, looking
  • 1 partner, not looking
  • 2 partners+

Of those, I would say the second and fourth are unambiguously practicing poly, the third could go either way but you could say is presumptively mono, and the first probably doesn't count (since they are actively practicing neither mono nor poly.)

If someone wants to run those numbers, I'd be curious how they come out.

Comment author: Cakoluchiam 29 November 2012 10:12:21PM *  1 point [-]

I don't agree that the first doesn't count. The Relationship Style question was about preferred style, not current active situation. It could be that 2/3 of the polyamorous people just can't get a date (lord knows I've been there). (ETA:) Or, in the case of not looking, don't want a date right now (somewhere I've also been).

In response to comment by [deleted] on 2012 Survey Results
Comment author: TrE 29 November 2012 07:40:46PM 0 points [-]

Were they excluded from the probabilities questions?

In response to comment by TrE on 2012 Survey Results
Comment author: Cakoluchiam 29 November 2012 10:03:09PM *  1 point [-]

It was stated that they should give the obvious answer and that surveys that didn't follow the rules would be thrown out... but maybe 50% isn't as obvious as 99.99% of the population thinks it is.

Is there any reason the prompt for the question shouldn't have explicitly stated "(The obvious answer is the correctly formatted value equivalent to p=0.5 or 50%)"?

In response to 2012 Survey Results
Comment author: Cakoluchiam 29 November 2012 09:57:56PM 3 points [-]

Any results for the calibration IQ?

In response to 2012 Survey Results
Comment author: [deleted] 29 November 2012 01:22:13PM 23 points [-]

I really have no idea what went so wrong [with the question about Bayes' birth year]

Note also that in the last two surveys the mean and median answers were approximately correct, whereas this time even the first quartile answer was too late by almost a decade. So it's not just a matter of overconfidence -- there also was a systematic error. Note that Essay Towards Solving a Problem in the Doctrine of Chances was published posthumously when Bayes would have been 62; if people estimated the year it was published and assumed that he had been approximately in his thirties (as I did), that would explain half of the systematic bias.

In response to comment by [deleted] on 2012 Survey Results
Comment author: Cakoluchiam 29 November 2012 09:38:23PM 1 point [-]

This question was biased against people who don't believe in history.

For my answer, which was wildly wrong, I guesstimated by interpolating backward using the rate of technological and cultural advance in various cultures throughout my lifetime, the dependency of such advances on Bayesian and related logics, with an adjustment for known wars and persecution of scientists and an assumption that Bayes lived in the western world. I should have realized that my confidence on estimates of each of these (except the last) was not very good and that I really shouldn't have had any more than marginal confidence in my answer, but I was hoping that the sheer number of assumptions I made would approach statistical mean of my confidences and that the overestimates would counterbalance the underestimates.

The real lesson I learned from this exercise is that I shouldn't have such high confidence in my ability to produce and compound a statistically significant number of assumptions with associated confidence levels.

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