LINK: https://hangouts.google.com/call/lxcrencg4z4rtznfbrvhjffk7ia

I think if I put a LW meetup on, well, Meetup, I might draw some people out of the woodwork. In the description, I'd give a brief explanation of the word "rationalist" (as "Boise Rationalists" will probably catch more eyes than "Boise LessWrong Meetup"). I'd also include links to this site, HPMOR, and Khaneman's books, and a blurb about eventual goals. What's your opinion on that strategy? I know that when I moved to the area, I browsed Meetup for interesting groups and attended several. Talking to others, I've learned that they did the same. If I'd seen "Boise Rationalists," I would have been interested.

There's a group that's only a seven-hour drive from my location, so I could make that a few times a year.

I hadn't thought of the EA angle! That might be more palatable to some newcomers.

Another death: Leonard Nimoy

I'm reminded of Ozy's posts on radical acceptance, specifically this one.

That's called "growing wise" :-P

This should be a separate thread: Best Pickup Lines in a Transhumanist Bar :-)

Which is precisely why "let's genetically engineer our possible children" isn't a great start.

I have a lot of goals that are in constant flux, but I've decided on one thing I want. I want a community. Honestly, I'm terrified that I might have to put it together. My area is not tiny, but it's not large enough to have made the rationalist radar yet. There's a humanist group, some atheist groups, and a "free thinkers club" that seems wholly unpleasant. I've spoken with some members, and it seems to be made up of the same debate-club "intellectuals" that skeeved me out in high school. I'm naturally group-averse. I'm on the autism spectrum; while I can pass as sociable, that ceases once I go off-script. Community building is not natural or pleasant to me, but if I want a group that I can trust to share some of my values, I might have to proselytize.

By proselytize, I don't mean using cognitive tricks. I wouldn't be good at that anyway. I just mean, show up to those programming groups that I keep meaning to go to. Showing them some rationality materials, and seeing if anyone is interested in chatting about it. That's all I need, really. People willing to engage without resorting to status contests. People who can support each other, optimize together.

I have no idea how to go about it when there's not a huge rationalist readership in the area. I'm scared, and it'll have to wait until summer anyways. But that's my goal.

It's complicated. And depends on the way those people treat your goals.

Scenario 1: you post on facebook "This month I want to lose 1kg, I am worried I can't do it - you guys should show me support". Your friends; being the best of rationalist friends; believe your instructions are thought out and planned. In the interest of complying with your request you get 17 likes and 10 comments of "wow awesome" and "you go man" and "that's the way to do it". Even longer ones of, "good planning will help you achieve your goals", and some guy saying how he lost 2 kilos in a month, so 1kg should be easy as cake.

when you read all the posts your brain goes "wow, lost weight like that", "earn't the adoration of my friends for doing the thing", I feel great! So you have a party, eat what you like, relax and enjoy that feeling. One month later you managed to gain a kilo not lose one.

Scenario 2: You post on facebook, "This month I want to lose 2kg (since last month wasn't so great). So all of you better hold me to that, and help me get there". In the interest of complying with you, all your rational friends post things like, "Yea right", "I'll believe it when I see it". "you couldn't do 1kg last month, what makes you think you can do it now?", "I predict he will lose one kilo but then put it back on again. haha", "you're so full of it. You want to lose weight; I expect to see you running with me at 8am 3 times a week". two weeks later someone posts to your wall, "hows the weight loss going? I think you failed already", and two people comment, "I bet he did", and "actually he did come running in the morning".

When you read all the posts your brain goes; "looks like I gotta prove it to them that I can do this, and hey this could be easy if they help me exercise". After two weeks you are starting to lose track of the initial momentum, the chocolate is starting to move to the front of the cupboard again. When you see the post on your wall you double down; throw out the chocolate so it's not in your temptation, and message the runner that you will be there tomorrow. After a month you actually did it, reporting back to your friends they actually congratulate you for your work; "my predictions were wrong; updating my beliefs", "congratulations", "teach me how you did it"..

Those scenarios were made up, but its designed to show that it depends entirely on the circumstances of your sharing your goals and the atmosphere in which you do it as well as how you treat the events surrounding sharing your goals.

Given that in scenario 2 asking for help yielded an exercise partner, and scenario 1 only yielded encouragement - there is a clear distinction between useful goal-sharing and less-useful goal sharing.

Yes; some goal sharing is ineffective; but some can be effective. Up to you whether you take the effective pathways or not.

addendum: treat people's goals the right way; not the wrong way. Make a prediction on what you think will happen then ask them critical questions. If something sounds unrealistic - gently prod them in the direction of being more realistic (emphasis on gentle). (relevant example) "what happens over the xmas silly season when there is going to be lots of food around - how will you avoid putting on weight?", "do you plan to exercise?", "what do you plan to do differently from last month?". DO NOT reward people for not achieving their goals.

Speaking as somebody who could easily be on the other side of that equation, except for a very rigorous moral system, including a rule to stay the hell away from people who scream "Victim!" into my brain, I can tell you exactly how you got into that situation.

She became whatever you needed her to be, in order for you to be the target she wanted you to be. (I can manipulate anybody into doing anything. I just have to become the person they would do that thing for - and my self is flexible in ways most people couldn't imagine.)

In particular, she became somebody who needed help, because you would try to help her.

It's important to realize - she doesn't need help. She never needed help. The person you want to help doesn't exist, and never did. That person was a mask that the person who threatened you wore to make you vulnerable.

Allow yourself to mourn the person you thought she was. But do not imagine that that person was ever her.