Comment author: MendelSchmiedekamp 24 September 2009 02:35:42PM 6 points [-]

I expect that one source of the problem is seen in equating these two situations. On one hand you have 100 copies of the same movie. On the other hand, you have 100 distinct humans you could pay to save. To draw a direct comparison you would need to treat these as 100 copies of some idealized stranger. In which case the scope insensitivity might (depending on how you aggregate the utility of a copy's life) make more sense as a heuristic.

And this sort of simplification is likely one part of what is happening when we naively consider the questions:

How much would you pay to save a random stranger’s life? How much would you pay to save 100 strangers?

I wonder how this experiment would change if you presented lists of names? If you encouraged a different model for the 100 strangers.

Comment author: CaptainOblivious 26 September 2009 02:27:40PM *  4 points [-]

To draw a direct comparison you would need to treat these as 100 copies of some idealized stranger.

Actually, I think a direct comparison would involve saving the same person 100 times (it was the same movie 100 times). I think at some point I'd begin to wonder if the gene pool wouldn't be better off without someone that accident-prone (/suicidal)... or at the very least I'd suspect that his ability to need saving would probably outlast my finances, in which case I might as well accept his inevitable death and quit paying sooner rather than later!

Comment author: Dagon 07 August 2009 08:42:25PM *  1 point [-]

I think delving into the difference between untrue and impossible would help here. In a model which contains rules distinct from state, "untrue" means "same rules, different state" (usually a state that's not obtainable from the current state and rules). "impossible" means "unsustainable under the rules".

That distinction between rules and state is only in our minds/models, though. In the actual universe, if there is such a distinction to an outside observer, it's lost to those of us stuck in it, because we can effect neither portion of reality.

note: I'm saying this more confidently than I feel. I would deeply appreciate pointers to any evidence that the universe has rules and state which are somehow alterable separately.

As to "hypothetical" vs "counterfactual", you're right that this isn't a blanket synonym. There are hypotheticals that have unknown truth value rather than being known falsehoods. For purposes of this discussion, and for most interesting thought experiment, the hypothetical situation given is simply false - it does not exist as described in the universe.

Comment author: CaptainOblivious 08 August 2009 01:20:06PM 0 points [-]

That distinction between rules and state is only in our minds/models, though. In the actual universe, if there is such a distinction to an outside observer, it's lost to those of us stuck in it, because we can effect neither portion of reality.

I don't know if I agree - it seems to me that our ability to effect changes to one, but not the other, is precisely what defines the difference!

For example, my state is not "standing in the front yard", though it could be. I could easily make it so. However, there's a rule against "floating 10 feet up in the front yard without the aid of platforms or balloons, etc"... and I know this is a rule, not a state, precisely because I cannot float!