Comment author: Caspar42 29 September 2014 01:16:09PM 4 points [-]

This post argues that there is one and only one super goal for any agent, and that goal is simply to exist in a competitive world. Our human sense of other purposes is just an illusion created by our evolutionary origins. It is not the goal of an apple tree to make apples. Rather it is the goal of the apple tree's genes to exist. The apple tree has developed a clever strategy to achieve that, namely it causes people to look after it by producing juicy apples.

Humans are definitely a result of natural selection, but it does not seem to be difficult at all to find goals of ours that do not serve the goal of survival or reproduction at all. Evolution seems to produce these other preferences accidentally. One thing how that happens may be examplified by the following: Our ability to contemplate our thinking from an almost external perspective (sometimes referred to as self-consiousness), is definitely helpful for learning / improving our thinking and could therefore prevail in evolution. However, it may also be the cause of altruism, because it makes every single one of us realize, that they are not very special. (This is by no means an attempt to explain altruism scientifically or something...) More generally, it would be a really strange coincidence, if all cognitive features of an organism in our physical world that serve the goal to survive and reproduce do not serve any other goal. In conclusion, even evolution can (probably) produce (by coincidence) organisms with goals that are not subgoals of the goal to survive and reproduce.

Likewise the paper clip making AI only makes paper clips because if it did not make paper clips then the people that created it would turn it off and it would cease to exist. (That may not be a conscious choice of the AI anymore than than making juicy apples was a conscious choice of the apple tree, but the effect is the same.)

Now, imagine the paper clip maximizer to be more than a robot arm, imagine it to be a well-programmed Seed AI (or the like). As pointed out in ViliamBur's and cousinit's comment, its goal will probably not be easily changed (by coincidence or evolution of several such AIs), for example it could save its source code on several hard drives that are synchronized by a hard-wired mechanism or something... Now this paper clip maximizer would start turning all matter into paper clips. To achieve its goal, it would certainly remain in existence (and thereby give you the illusion of having the supergoal to exist in the first place) and protect its values (which is not extremely difficult). Assuming, it is successful (and we can expect this from a seed AI/superintelligence), the only matter (in reach) left, would at some point be the hardware of the paper clip maximizer itself. What would the paper clip maximizer do then? In conclusion, self-preservation and maybe propagation of value may be important subgoals, but it is certainly not the supergoal.

Request for feedback on a paper about (machine) ethics

7 Caspar42 28 September 2014 12:03PM

I have written a paper on ethics with special concentration on machine ethics and formality with the following abstract:

Most ethical systems are formulated in a very intuitive, imprecise manner. Therefore, they cannot be studied mathematically. In particular, they are not applicable to make machines behave ethically. In this paper we make use of this perspective of machine ethics to identify preference utilitarianism as the most promising approach to formal ethics. We then go on to propose a simple, mathematically precise formalization of preference utilitarianism in very general cellular automata. Even though our formalization is incomputable, we argue that it can function as a basis for discussing practical ethical questions using knowledge gained from different scientific areas.

Here are some further elements of the paper (things the paper uses or the paper is about):

  • (machine) ethics
  • (in)computability
  • artificial life in cellular automata
  • Bayesian statistics
  • Solomonoff's a priori probability

As I propose a formal ethical system, things get mathy at some point but the first and by far most important formula is relatively simple - the rest can be skipped then, so no problem for the average LWer.

I already discussed the paper with a few fellow students, as well as Brian Tomasik and a (computer science) professor of mine. Both recommended me to try to publish the paper. Also, I received some very helpful feedback. But because this would be my first attempt to publish something, I could still use more help, both with the content itself and scientific writing in English (which, as you may have guessed, is not my first language), before I submit the paper and Brian recommended using the LW's discussion board. I would also be thankful for recommendations on which journal is appropriate for the paper.

I would like to send those interested a draft via PM. This way I can also make sure that I don't spend all potential reviewers on the current version.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a moral realist. Also and as mentioned in the abstract, the proposed ethical system is incomputable and can therefore be argued to have infinite Kolmogorov complexity. So, it does not really pose a conflict with LW-consensus (including Complexity of value).

Comment author: ChristianKl 26 June 2014 03:48:12PM 3 points [-]

My experience is that philosophers often carelessly use words to avoid conveying a clear statement, that could be refutable.

If they do it with the purposes of not making a statement that's open to certain refutations I don't see how that's careless.

Comment author: Caspar42 26 June 2014 06:34:03PM 1 point [-]

Oops... ;-)

Comment author: [deleted] 22 June 2014 07:57:44AM 1 point [-]

Eliezer has publications in the field of artificial intelligence? Where?

In response to comment by [deleted] on Will AGI surprise the world?
Comment author: Caspar42 25 June 2014 09:43:19AM 3 points [-]
Comment author: Caspar42 24 June 2014 07:39:09PM 2 points [-]

Philosophy surely is not useless, but some of their arguments just do not make sense to me.

Physicists tend to express bafflement that philosophers care so much about the words. Philosophers, for their part, tend to express exasperation that physicists can use words all the time without knowing what they actually mean.

My experience is that philosophers often carelessly use words to avoid conveying a clear statement, that could be refutable.

This leads directly to the other common misunderstanding among physicists: that philosophers waste their time on grandiose-sounding “Why?” questions that may have no real answers. Perhaps “misunderstanding” isn’t the right word – some such questions are a waste of time, and philosophers do sometimes get caught up in them. (Just as physicists sometimes spend their time on questions that are kind of boring.)

To me, there seems to be a huge difference between "boring" scientific questions and "grandiose-sounding Why?-questions that ..] have no real answers" what Yudkowsky calls [wrong questions, e.g. "Why is there anything instead of nothing?" where it remains very unclear how an answer to that problem would look like.

The quest for absolute clarity of description and rigorous understanding is a crucially important feature of the philosophical method.

As Jacob Bronowski and Bruce Mazlish state in The Western Intellectual Tradition, "our confidence in any science is roughly proportional to the amount of mathematics it employs - that is, to its ability to formulate its concepts with enough precision to allow them to be handled mathematically." In my experience, some philsophers sometimes confuse precision with difficult to read sentences, use of latin words etc. If they knew mathematics (or other formalisms) better, they'd probably produce less material that is of no use (in other scientific disciplines) due to lack of precision.

Science often gives us models of the world that are more than good enough [...]. But that’s not really what drives us to do science in the first place. We shouldn’t be happy to do “well enough,” or merely fit the data – we should be striving to understand how the world really works.

How do they expect an answer to the question of how the world really works to look like? More specifically, what would stop one from responding to any answer with: Yeah, but ... how does the world really, actually work?

Comment author: Qiaochu_Yuan 22 June 2014 06:21:10PM *  3 points [-]

There are helpful models and there are unhelpful models. I can model the universe as a wave function in a gigantic Hilbert space, and this is an incredibly general model as it applies to any quantum-mechanical system, but it's not necessarily a helpful model for making predictions at the level I care about most of the time. My claim is that, even if you believe that utility functions can model human preferences (which I also dispute), then it's still true that utility functions are in practice an unhelpful model in this sense.

Comment author: Caspar42 22 June 2014 08:51:51PM 0 points [-]

For our universe, other models have been extremely succesful. Therefore, the generality of wave functions clearly is not required. In case of (human) preferences, it is unclear whether another model suffices.

What you are saying seems to me a bit like: "Turing machines are difficult to use. Nobody would simulate this certain X with a Turing machine in practice. Therefore Turing-machines are generally useless." But of course on some level of practical application, I totally agree with you, so mabye there is no real disagreement in the use of utility functions here - at least I would never say something like "my utility funtion is ..." and I do not attempt to write a C-Compiler on a Turing machine.

I do not think that the statement "utility functions can model human preferences" has a formal meaning, however, if you say that it is not true, I would really be very interested in how you prefer to model human preferences.

Comment author: Qiaochu_Yuan 20 June 2014 05:16:32PM *  3 points [-]

I can't help but suspect, though, that LW people are drawn to utilitarianism because of what they see as the inevitability of using utility functions to model preferences. Maybe this impression is mistaken.

Comment author: Caspar42 20 June 2014 10:31:48PM 0 points [-]

To me it seems as if utility functions were the most general (deterministic) way to model preferences. So, if we model preferences by "something else", it will usually be some special case of a utility function. Or do you have something even more general than utility functions that is not based on throwing a coin? Or do you propose that we model preferences with randomness?

Comment author: Caspar42 19 June 2014 11:11:52AM 2 points [-]

For practical purposes I agree that it does not help a lot to talk about utility functions. As the We Don't Have a Utility Function article points out, we simply do not know our utility functions but only vague terminal values. However, as you pointed out yourself that does not mean that we do not "have" a utility function at all.

The soft (and hard) failure seems to be a tempting but unnecessary case of pseudo-rationalization. Still, the concept of an agent "having" (maybe in the sense of "acting in a complex way towards optimizing") a utility funktion seems to be very important for defining utilitarian (hence the name, I guess...) ethical systems. In contrast, the notion of terminal values seems to be a lot more vague and not sufficient for defining utilitarianism. Similar things (practical uselessness but theoretical importance) apply to the evaluation of the intelligence of an agent. Therefore, I think that the term 'utility function' is essential for theoretical debate, even though I agree that it is sometimes used in the wrong place.

In response to comment by Caspar42 on Rationalist Sport
Comment author: lmm 18 June 2014 10:56:17PM 0 points [-]

our body has some impact on our brain and physical activity has some (positive) impact on our body, it seems rational to me to engage in some physical activity rather than "waisting your intelligence" on playing chess (which I also did a lot).

Huh? In the absence of further evidence I'd think the best way to get better at abstract reasoning is to practice abstract reasoning, which chess is going to be better at than sports. Sure, sport has effects on your brain, but so does chess.

In response to comment by lmm on Rationalist Sport
Comment author: Caspar42 19 June 2014 09:02:40AM 2 points [-]

The positive effects of chess may be higher, but I presume that the average rationalist or LWer practices 8 hours of abstract reasoning a day, simply by doing their job. Let us think about Bobby Fischer. He probably practiced at least 10 hours a day - maybe then another hour of chess did not have an impact as positive as an hour of tennis, swimming etc. At least, he did not think so.

The situation is of course very different, if you are a professional athlete. Then some hours of chess in the free time is (probably) a better way to train your brain, but so would be reading a book about AI, rationality, etc.

All I am saying is that the time you can improve your mental abilities by thinking about some hard problems is limited and above a certain threshold (maybe 8h a day, maybe a lot more or less depending on the kind of activities, the specific person etc.) it might be better to do something else, like sleep, go for a walk, listen to music or engage in some physical activity.

Here is some further evidence that physical activity might have a positive impact on your brain: (I neither have the time nor the competence to evaluate the quality of these papers; also I hope that they're visible from outside a university network)

Cotman, Carl W.; Engesser-Cesar, Christie: Exercise Enhances and Protects Brain Function. http://journals.lww.com/acsm-essr/Abstract/2002/04000/Exercise_Enhances_and_Protects_Brain_Function.6.aspx

Cotman, Carl W. , Berchtold, Nicole C., Christie, Lori-Ann: Exercise builds brain health: key roles of growth factor cascades and inflammation. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166223607001786#

Colcombe, Stanley J., Erickson, Kirk I., Raz, Naftali, Webb, Andrew G., Cohen, Neal J., McAuley, Edward, Kramer, Arthur F.: Aerobic Fitness Reduces Brain Tissue Loss in Aging Humans. http://biomedgerontology.oxfordjournals.org/content/58/2/M176.short

Google Scholar finds thousands of such articles.

In response to comment by Caspar42 on Rationalist Sport
Comment author: Ander 18 June 2014 05:11:59PM 1 point [-]

e-sports would provide no mental benefit? Here is an article with some studies that disagree: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-athletes-way/201310/video-gaming-can-increase-brain-size-and-connectivity

In response to comment by Ander on Rationalist Sport
Comment author: Caspar42 18 June 2014 05:43:44PM 1 point [-]

Thank you, apparently my question mark and 'maybe' were very approriate. ;-)

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