In response to comment by Danfly on A sense of logic
Comment author: TheOtherDave 27 April 2012 11:16:49PM 1 point [-]

Damn, I should remember to read comments before replying.

Comment author: Danfly 27 April 2012 11:17:16PM 0 points [-]

Given the timeframe involved, I think it's likely we were typing at the same time...

Comment author: SusanBrennan 27 April 2012 10:31:43PM *  0 points [-]

You are quite free to do so, unless you pick the definition of law which is exclusively legal, which is the abuse of language that this argument depends on. If you choose a definition of law under which natural laws or mathematical laws can be counted, then the first premise is indeed false (in a materialist framework anyway).

When you change the definition of law to the legal one, the second premise becomes nonsense.

Regardless of which you pick, any reasoned inference which respects the language involved will generally lead to one premise being true and the other false. Essentially, a materialist can arbitrarily decide which is the true premise and which is the false premise (provided a particular definition has not been made clear beforehand).

I don't know if there is a common definition of law which could make both premises false.

Besides, I didn't mention this because it was a good argument. I mentioned it because it is a shockingly bad argument that I have seen people take seriously.

Comment author: Danfly 27 April 2012 11:10:32PM *  0 points [-]

I got the impression that Dave was asking what is the response that you get if you simply say "I reject the premise that all laws are constructed by some intelligence?". Was that not the case?

In response to comment by Danfly on Be Happier
Comment author: Klevador 16 April 2012 07:41:43AM 0 points [-]

Explain?

In response to comment by Klevador on Be Happier
Comment author: Danfly 16 April 2012 07:55:17AM *  2 points [-]

Sorry. I probably should have linked happy and sexy. I was saying that the "happy" component fit well with the topic. Sexy was just an added bonus.

To summarize:

If you take a number, sum the squares of its digits to make a new number, then do the same with the next number and it eventually reaches one through that process, it is a "happy" number. "Happy prime" just refers to those prime numbers which are happy.

Demonstration: 3^2+1^2=10 and 1^2+0^2=1

a sexy prime differs from another prime by 6 (in this case; 37).

In response to comment by SusanBrennan on Be Happier
Comment author: TheOtherDave 15 April 2012 04:16:45PM 4 points [-]

I'm saddened that it's no longer prime.

In response to comment by TheOtherDave on Be Happier
Comment author: Danfly 15 April 2012 06:05:38PM 2 points [-]

Upvoting to 31, which is quite a fantastic number, since it is both (aptly) a "happy" prime, as well as a "sexy" prime.

Comment author: adamisom 14 April 2012 06:52:13AM 1 point [-]

One way of answering might be to say that there is no separate "belief" that beliefs should be grounded. But i'm not sure.

All I know is that the question annoys me, but I can't quite put my finger on it. It reminds me of questions like (1) the accusation that you can't justify the use of logic logically, or (2) the accusation that tolerance is actually intolerant - because it's intolerant of intolerance. There might be a level distinction that needs to be made here, as in (2) - and maybe in (1) though I think that's different.

Comment author: Danfly 14 April 2012 11:23:45AM 1 point [-]

(1) has come out of my mouth on a few occasions, albeit not in those exact words. It's normally after a few beers and I feel like playing the extreme skeptic a la David Hume, just to annoy everyone. I think the best way around it is to resort to the empirical argument and say that, in our experience, it is always right: Essentially the same thing Yudkowsky does with PA arithmetic here. Trying to find an argument against it which is truly "rationalist" in the continental sense has been a dead end in my experience.

(2) sort of depends on the pragmatics and what "tolerance" actually means to the persons involved in a given context. If you define tolerance as simply being tolerant of other viewpoints, then you can still be tolerant of the intolerant viewpoints. However, if you define it as freedom from bigotry, then that could indeed be called "intolerant" by the standards of the first definition.

I hope I'm making sense here.

In response to comment by Tobbic2 on Bayesian Judo
Comment author: TraderJoe 12 April 2012 12:38:04PM *  1 point [-]

[comment deleted]

In response to comment by TraderJoe on Bayesian Judo
Comment author: Danfly 12 April 2012 12:52:52PM 0 points [-]

Data accumulated using the scientific method perhaps? Once you have the data, you can make inferences to the best explanation. If the theory held to be the best explanation is falsified, that becomes part of the data. It then ceases to be the be the best explanation.

Comment author: Douglas_Knight2 05 October 2007 03:04:41AM 0 points [-]

Science was weaker in these days

Could you elaborate on this? What do you mean by Science? (reasoning? knowledge?)

The thing whose weakness seems relevant to me is a cultural tradition of doubting religion. Also, prerequisites which I have trouble articulating because they are so deeply buried: perhaps a changing notion of benevolence.

Comment author: Danfly 09 April 2012 05:18:45PM 3 points [-]

I'll take a wild stab in the dark and say that he probably meant that the method of reasoning was not as sophisticated back then. You could call the Aristotelean method of reasoning from empirical observation a "strengthening" of science. Nevertheless you could still say that "science" was much weaker back then compared to Popper's critical rationalism, with its emphasis on falsification.

Nevertheless, I'm sure I will be informed if this interpretation is wrong, which will hopefully help me be less wrong in the future.

Comment author: Danfly 09 April 2012 09:45:58AM 0 points [-]

"Just as language and auditory centers must work together to understand the significance of speech sounds, so both deductive and inductive centers must work together to construct and evaluate complex inferences".

I have to ask. Am I the only one who really liked this footnote?

Comment author: Dmytry 20 March 2012 01:16:42AM *  -2 points [-]

If fallacies are weak Bayesian evidence, and given that for just about any fallacy there is a fallacy that simply negates output of fallacy (a fancy fallacious reasoner's fallacy), then how come fallacies don't (mostly) cancel out as evidence?

e.g. practical example: "correlation implies [direct] causation" is the simple fallacy, and "correlation doesn't imply any correlation" is the corresponding fancy fallacy. Which is also wrong because in our universe, unless it's QM, if a strongly correlates with b, then either a causes b, b causes a, or c causes both a and b - it's not that there's no causation, it's that causation may not be the one you privileged. Usually when you try to teach everyone about some fallacy, you end up creating another fallacy that's opposite (or a bias).

One needs to somehow gauge the 'fallaciousness' of opposite fallacies.

Comment author: Danfly 01 April 2012 05:12:44PM *  0 points [-]

"One needs to somehow gauge the 'fallaciousness' of opposite fallacies."

Isn't that exactly what the Hahn-Oaksford paper does? I doubt I'm as intelligent as most people on this site, but I was under the impression that this was all about using Bayesian methods to measure the probable "fallaciousness" of certain informal fallacies.

In response to Fight Zero-Sum Bias
Comment author: Jayson_Virissimo 19 July 2010 06:13:11PM 4 points [-]

Envy is pain at the good fortune of others. -Aristotle

What is the difference between what Aristotle called the vice of envy and the zero-sum bias? I wonder if these two concepts are aiming at the same thing, and if we can learn about one by reading what has been said about the other.

Comment author: Danfly 12 August 2011 09:02:23PM 0 points [-]

There are certainly many cases where Aristotle's definition of envy would adequately describe instances of zero-sum biases. In particular, when one observes the suffering of others in contrast to those with immense wealth. This can often be seen in comparisons to the west and the third world, as well as in the concepts of "core" and "periphery" in world systems theory. The problem with using the word envy, as I see it, is that the word in its currently accepted form leads people to assume that dissatisfaction is on behalf of the agent alone and not on the behalf of others. It would only reduce the clarity of language surrounding the subject.

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