Comment author: root 22 June 2016 11:53:33AM *  1 point [-]

Not much lives 1000m under the surface.

Under the surface (for example, below the European continent) or in the deep seas? I'm not sure about the former but I'm quite confident that the following applies to the latter:

My layman impression is that investigating lower altitudes becomes increasingly (perhaps exponentially) difficult the lower you go. Wikipedia also says that "Humans have explored less than 2% of the ocean floor" so I would disagree with your assessment of "not much lives 1000m under the surface".

I'm honestly interested in how you came to that conclusion though - If you have an interesting and reputable text that refutes me, please share. I came to mine based on reading Wikipedia too much.

In response to comment by root on Crazy Ideas Thread
Comment author: Daniel_Burfoot 22 June 2016 05:48:44PM *  1 point [-]

I should have said "not much lives below 1000m until you get to the ocean floor". Not much can happen in the deep ocean because light doesn't penetrate that deeply. The creatures that do live there have to rely on organic material falling slowly from the surface.

The [Bathypelagic Zone] is also marked by very low temperatures (5 or 6 degrees Celsius) and having a very low organismal biomass, a trend that will continue until reaching the ocean floor.

From this article

Comment author: Marlon 20 June 2016 08:00:11AM 0 points [-]

Don't send heat underwater, it's a bad idea for everything that lives under there (and for us if we don't want these things going up).

I'm curious though, how would you "send" heat ?

In response to comment by Marlon on Crazy Ideas Thread
Comment author: Daniel_Burfoot 20 June 2016 03:09:30PM 0 points [-]

Not much lives 1000m under the surface. Also, the amount of heat that we would send is actually quite small compared to the heat capacity of the oceans. Water has 4000x higher heat capacity than air by volume.

Transferring heat from a hot place to a cold place is really easy. In principle you can just connect them with a highly conductive material like copper. In practice even copper might not have enough heat conductance, so it might be better to pump either water or air from one place to another.

In response to Crazy Ideas Thread
Comment author: Daniel_Burfoot 19 June 2016 05:33:35PM *  6 points [-]

Large scale heat management: controlling or influencing temperature flows on a geographic (regional or global) scale. Heat management is one of the deep fundamental problems in life and engineering, but humans have never tried to do anything smarter or more ambitious in this area than standard HVAC stuff.

Humans like moderate temperatures, say 55-75 F, but we spend quite a lot of our time in discomfort or even pain because the actual temperature is outside this range. But the problem isn't that heat (or cold) is in short supply, it's just distributed unevenly. This fact hit home for me when I was riding in an Uber because terrible winter weather knocked out Boston's subway system, and the driver told me she had just returned from a trip to Brazil, which was mostly unpleasant because the heat made it impossible to do anything outside.

Here are some options:

  • Heat banking: store heat during the summer in large reservoirs of water. Release it during the winter.
  • Heat trade: hot regions send heat to cold regions; both sides are happier.
  • Heat sequestration: there are huge pools of cold water about 1000m underneath the ocean surface, when your city is too hot, send some heat down there.

I'm actually quite confident some version of this idea will work, because there are two vastly powerful forces working in its favor:

  • Economics: in heat trade, both parties feel that they are exchanging a good for a bad. This kind of exchange almost never happens, most normal trade relies on the parties valuing something at a different magnitude of positive or negative value, but with the same sign.
  • The Great Second Law: Humans suffer from temperature unevenness but Nature actually prefers temperatures to equilibriate. We just have to help Nature do what it already wants to do.
Comment author: Sable 19 June 2016 07:30:50AM 1 point [-]

I'll go first. I'm' in the process of applying for jobs in software. Furthermore, it'll be my first job out of college.

Any advice? What will I, five/ten years from now, wish that I had known now?

Should I take a job in a topic that I don't see myself in long-term?

Comment author: Daniel_Burfoot 19 June 2016 05:20:10PM 3 points [-]

Should I take a job in a topic that I don't see myself in long-term?

No. Go directly towards the field you want to be in, even if it means taking less money. Life is short and careers are even shorter.

Comment author: gjm 15 June 2016 03:02:39PM -2 points [-]

I find your list of historical examples less than perfectly convincing. The single biggest success story there is probably science, but (as ChristianKl has also pointed out) science is not at all "based on aligning individual self-interest with the interests of the society as a whole"; if you asked a hundred practising scientists and a hundred eminent philosophers of science to list twenty things each that science is "based on" I doubt anything like that would appear in any of the lists.

(Nor, for that matter, is science based on pursuing the interests of others at the cost of one's own self-interest. What you wrote is orthogonal to the truth rather than opposite.)

I do agree that when self-interest can be made to lead to good things for everyone it's very nice, and I don't dispute your characterization of capitalism, criminal justice, and democracy as falling nicely in line with that. But it's a big leap from "there are some big examples where aligning people's self-interest with the common good worked out well" to "a good moral system should never appeal to anything other than self-interest".

Yes, moral exhortation has sometimes been used to get people to commit atrocities, but atrocities have been motivated by self-interest from time to time too. (And ... isn't your main argument against moral exhortation that it's ineffective? If it turns out to be a more effective way to get people to commit atrocities than appealing to self-interest is, doesn't that undermine that main argument?)

Comment author: Daniel_Burfoot 16 June 2016 02:15:13AM 0 points [-]

I think I’ve been in the top 5% of my age cohort all my life in understanding the power of incentives, and all my life I’ve underestimated it. And never a year passes but I get some surprise that pushes my limit a little farther.

Comment author: Anders_H 14 June 2016 01:05:37AM 4 points [-]

There may be an ethically relevant distinction between a rule that tells you to avoid being the cause of bad things, and a rule that says you should cause good things to happen. However, I am not convinced that causality is relevant to this distinction. As far as I can tell, these two concepts are both about causality. We may be using words differently, do you think you could explain why you think this distinction is about causality?

Comment author: Daniel_Burfoot 14 June 2016 03:33:40PM *  2 points [-]

In my understanding, consequentialism doesn't accept a moral distinction between sins of omission and sins of action. If a person dies whom I could have saved through some course of action, I'm just as guilty as I would be if I murdered the person. In my view, there must be a distinction between murder (=causing a death) and failure to prevent a death.

If you want to be more formal, here's a good rule. Given a death, would the death still have a occurred in a counterfactual world where the potentially-guilty person did not exist? If the answer is yes, the person is innocent. Since lots of poor people would still be dying if I didn't exist, I'm thereby exonerated of their death (phew). I still feel bad about eating meat, though.

Comment author: gjm 14 June 2016 01:25:18PM -2 points [-]

The best strategy to produce ethical behavior is simply to appeal to self-interest

This is only true of ethical behaviours that can be produced by appealing to self-interest. That might not be all of them. I don't see how you can claim to know that the best strategies are all in this category without actually doing the relevant cost-benefit calculations.

Comment author: Daniel_Burfoot 14 June 2016 03:20:53PM *  1 point [-]

the relevant cost-benefit calculations.

My claim is based on historical analysis. Historically, the ideas that benefit humanity the most in the long term are things like capitalism, science, the criminal justice system, and (to a lesser extent) democracy. These ideas are all based on aligning individual self-interest with the interests of the society as a whole.

Moral exhortation, it must be noted, also has a hideous dark side, in that it delineates a ingroup/outgroup distinction between those who accept the exhortation and those who reject it, and that distinction is commonly used to justify violence and genocide. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all based on moral exhortation and were all used in history to justify atrocities against the infidel outgroup. The same is true of communism. Hitler spent a lot of time on his version of moral exhortation. The French revolutionaries had an inspiring creed of "liberty, equality and fraternity" and then used that creed to justify astonishing bloodshed first within France and then throughout Europe.

Comment author: Daniel_Burfoot 13 June 2016 11:46:44PM 9 points [-]

I see in the "Recent on Rationality Blogs" panel an article entitled "Why EA is new and obvious". I'll take that as a prompt to list my three philosophical complaints abouts EA:

  • I believe in causality as a basic moral concept. My ethical system absolutely requires me to avoid hurting people, but is much less adamant about helping people. While some people claim to be indifferent to this distinction, in practice people's revealed moral preferences suggest that they agree with me (certainly the legal system agrees with me).
  • I also believe in locality as an ontologically primitive moral issue. I am more morally obligated to my mother than to a random stranger in Africa. Finer gradations are harder to tease out, but I still feel more obligation to a fellow American than to a citizen of another country, ceteris paribus.
  • I do not believe a good ethical system should rely on moral exhortation, at least not to the extent that EA does. Such systems will never succeed in solving the free-rider problem. The best strategy to produce ethical behavior is simply to appeal to self-interest, by offering people membership in a community that confers certain benefits, if the person is willing to follow certain rules.
Comment author: morganism 13 June 2016 09:03:03PM *  0 points [-]

a fun little article on training a neural network to recognize images.

https://medium.com/@ageitgey/machine-learning-is-fun-part-3-deep-learning-and-convolutional-neural-networks-f40359318721#.k34ceav8z

and an integration paper too

Towards an integration of deep learning and neuroscience

http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2016/06/13/058545

Comment author: Daniel_Burfoot 13 June 2016 11:26:18PM 4 points [-]

If you think about it, everything is just numbers

In my view this is one of the most serious misconceptions about the entire field of machine learning. Sure, if you zoom out far enough, everything is a number or vector or matrix, but it's rare that such a representation is the most convenient or precise one for formulating the learning problem.

Comment author: Daniel_Burfoot 04 June 2016 04:36:45PM 0 points [-]

It's a moral imperative that we must create this.

John Carmack, speaking of the Holodeck/Virtual World concept.

Quoted by David Kushner in Masters of Doom, see also here.

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