Michael Sullivan:

That's an exceptionally clear exegesis. Thanks!

Pablo Stafforini:

The words of Max Stirner (with whom I am admittedly unfamiliar) that you quote seem to me like so much bluster and semantic question-begging.

Do I write out of love to men? No, I write because I want to procure for my thoughts an existence in the world; and, even if I foresaw that these thoughts would deprive you of your rest and your peace, even if I saw the bloodiest wars blah blah blah

He sings not out of love for the hearer, but because he loves to sing and the hearer is useful in the act of singing? Do I have that right? That is... if his tree falls in the forest and no one is around, it does not make a sound?

Many philosophers (myself included, I believe), would argue that he is describing the functional definition of love: action and desire passing back and forth between two (or more) beings, each one depending on the other for his or her fulfilment and happiness. But it seems he wants to say that his dependence on others is a sign of isolation and not connection... I know my wording here is indefinite, but that's because Stirner's is. How is this bit of poetry anything more than blustering rationalization after-the-fact?

Does Max Stirner offer a less macho, less silly, more considered response to the objections that Eliezer raised with his "selfish" interlocutor?

Eliezer:

A nice, clear explanation of Fake Justification. Thanks.

I would chime in with the others that the perceived literary value of the Bible is not (generally) a Fake Justification. It is a great work; it must be judged on its own merits (that is to say... for what it is "trying" to be, and for the time period it is composed in). Literature is a human endeavor, and literature can have immense value qua literature if it teaches us about humans in a unique, effective, and compelling way. It doesn't have a classical story arc to it, like the Lord of the Rings, but that's not reason enough to disregard it. (Though a lack of hobbitses might be compelling).

Judging ancient works by modern standards is a Freshman Comp 101 mistake. The Iliad is not only great because it is old and famous. It is also just plain great.

But, of course this doesn't take away from your larger point in the slightest. Insofar as "The Bible is Great Literature!!" is done as a sort of back-justification when the religious claims of the Bible are acknowledged to be false, it is faulty.

Topo: What? I don't understand you at all.

This is an excellent post, Eliezer!

Taking this phenomenon into consideration not only gives me cause to go back over my own teaching technique (of a rather specialized trade) and make sure I am not leaving out any steps that seem obvious to me (the specialist), but, like Laura, it helps me to understand times when I was baffled by a speaker or writer whose tone implied I'd be an idiot not to follow along easily.

Amen.

Wonderful.

I am a writer and Orwell is my hero. I love to see him discussed, and I find there is never a time at which I couldn't use a refresher. "Politics and the English Language" is an all-time gem.

When you say "If you analyze words deliberatively, rephrasing propositions, trying out different meanings, searching for nuggets of truthiness, then you're losing track of the first impression", it's a bit confusing. It sounds like you are saying "Don't use stock phrases as interchangeable tokens in an attempt to construct something truthy-sounding," which I gather is your meaning, which Orwell would endorse, and which would be of a piece with the rest of this blog.

But it also sounds very close to saying, "A writer should write from the gut and not worry about rephrasing and editing because editing is phony," which is of course the opposite of what Orwell teaches. What the most romantic-minded writers call "from the gut" is very often nothing more than received wisdom that "feels" true because they have never really questioned it. A good writer, like you say, is always reevaluating his words and the ways they might be construed. He rephrases his prepostions not his propositons, if I may be so cheeky.

It seems like one of the key factors in your story, Eliezer, is that you had read that book on math cranks. You were able to make the leap from your project of disproving Cantor and see its implications for the rest of your life thanks in part to having the example of the math crank in your mind.

Seeking evidence outside the immediate domain of inquiry can be tricky because it might lead one to include evidence that has no bearing on the actual problem, but because human endeavors don't happen in a vacuum, it's a great way of checking yourself for more general errors (like tilting at windmills).