Comment author: Deskchair 28 May 2012 02:22:49PM *  0 points [-]

In the natural world, the average animal with appreciable intelligence will experience more pain and suffering than joy and pleasure in its lifetime. As soon as we have the technology to live without it, we have a moral obligation to destroy all other life on the planet with a remotely developed brain.

Comment author: kalla724 10 April 2012 10:02:45PM 44 points [-]

An excellent question.

I would say that the effect is most likely very relevant for higher-level skills, for the following reasons:

  • The effect has been shown for motor planning, for estimation of timing, and for several other plastic features. Thus, it isn't limited to sensory processing alone.

  • If we assume a "worst case scenario" in which the higher-level networks are themselves exempt from this effect, we still have to expect an indirect improvement. The reason for this is relatively simple: higher-level mental behaviors are based on metanetworks that interconnect subnetworks which certainly are subject to attentional modulation.

I would say that transferability of the effect would depend on how transferable the trained skill is itself. If you train yourself to be really good at the go/no-go task where a red dot appears on the screen, you'll get good at it, and it won't make a difference anywhere else in your life - no matter how much attention you paid while training. If you train yourself to enunciate words better (which is predominantly motor training, and the attention effect has been shown to make a huge difference), this could transfer into many other higher-level behaviors which can be improved by speaking clearly.

Similar indirect improvements would also apply in case of music (tone discernment training is attention-dependent) and chess (spatial combinatorial thinking is dependent on attention-trainable circuitry).

So, in the worst case, this is still highly applicable, by choosing your training targets wisely.

  • Finally, there is no reason to assume the above worst case scenario. I don't know of any studies that examined the effects of attention on higher-level skills - most likely because studies would be incredibly difficult to do (there is no possible control group, since you can't have someone learn chess while not paying attention to it). But the molecular systems involved here seem to be pretty universal. Specifically, the effect has been shown to be dependent on acetylcholine release, and on the detection of this neurotransmitter by muscarinic receptors - which are present in many neurons within the higher-order associative and planning areas of the brain.

For a molecular pathway overview, see, for instance, Conner et al. in Neuron, Vol. 38, 819–829, 2003.

Therefore, the null hypothesis based on the data we currently have is that we should see this effect in higher-level skills directly, as well as indirectly.

Comment author: Deskchair 25 May 2012 03:12:32PM 0 points [-]

I don't think it means much that the molecular systems involved are universal. The fact that wires are transferring electrons in two different computers doesn't mean the computers are programmed the same way.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 16 September 2007 10:07:40PM 1 point [-]

Carl Sagan (I think) said we should be open-minded, but not so open that our brains fall out. It's even more important when discussing issues as morally fraught as torture, that we don't open our minds so far that our souls fall out.

Well said.

Comment author: Deskchair 23 May 2012 04:04:16PM 4 points [-]

To me, that sounds a lot like saying "We should be rational, but we should stop before it feels too unintuitive or against social norms".

Comment author: Tyrrell_McAllister 18 August 2011 04:34:17AM *  9 points [-]

Somehow I couldn't quite figure out what Eliezer was advocating when I first read this article. Now I think that he wants to see more exchanges like the following:

Experimentalist: My experiment yielded results that contradict your theory at the p < 0.01 level!

Theorist: I remain unconvinced. I defy your data.

Experimentalist: What?! You can't just ignore empirical observations like that. So, which is it? Are you accusing me of negligence or fraud?

Theorist: I'm not accusing you of anything. But your experiment could have been one of the 1-in-100 that would get results at least that strong just by chance. As unlikely as it is that you were so unlucky, it is nonetheless more likely than that my theory is wrong. Your p-value just wasn't large enough to kill my theory in one fell swoop. However, several independent replications of your results would be enough to do it.

Comment author: Deskchair 14 May 2012 04:42:27PM *  2 points [-]

So it sounds a lot like how science actually works. I'm not sure what this article offers, honestly.

Comment author: ErikM 09 May 2012 08:22:13PM 4 points [-]

I suppose he will be thinking along the same lines as a wirehead.

In response to comment by ErikM on Failed Utopia #4-2
Comment author: Deskchair 10 May 2012 04:43:18PM 5 points [-]

Is that a bad thing?

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 03 May 2012 03:18:07PM 5 points [-]

My impression is that we aren't terribly good yet at understanding how traits which involve many genes play out, whether political correctness is involved or not.

Comment author: Deskchair 04 May 2012 02:41:16PM 4 points [-]

That hasn't stopped us from doing incredible feats of artificial selection using phenotype alone. You can work faster and better the more you understand a system on the genetic level, but it's hardly necessary.