Comment author: Douglas_Reay 08 July 2015 07:56:34PM *  0 points [-]

Assuming that Arthur is knowledgeable enough to understand all the technical arguments—otherwise they're just impressive noises—it seems that Arthur should view David as having a great advantage in plausibility over Ernie, while Barry has at best a minor advantage over Charles.

This is the slippery bit.

People are often fairly bad at deciding whether or not their knowledge is sufficient to completely understand arguments in a technical subject that they are not a professional in. You frequently see this with some opponents of evolution or anthropogenic global climate change, who think they understand slogans such as "water is the biggest greenhouse gas" or "mutation never creates information", and decide to discount the credentials of the scientists who have studied the subjects for years.

Comment author: Douglas_Reay 31 May 2015 07:54:25PM 0 points [-]

I've always thought of that question as being more about the nature of identity itself.

If you lost your memories, would you still be the same being? If you compare a brain at two different points in time, is their 'identity' a continuum, or is it the type of quantity where there is a single agreed definition of "same" versus "not the same"?

See: 157. Similarity Clusters 158. Typicality and Asymmetrical Similarity 159. The Cluster Structure of Thingspace

Though I agree that the answer to a question that's most fundamentally true (or of interest to a philosopher), isn't necessarily going to be the answer that is most helpful in all circumstances.

Comment author: [deleted] 08 August 2014 03:38:55PM 0 points [-]

Then that's not what you described. You think the coherent extrapolated volition of humanity, or at least the people Albert interacts with is that they want to be deceived?

Comment author: Douglas_Reay 08 August 2014 11:39:00PM -1 points [-]

It is plausible that the AI thinks that the extrapolated volition of his programmers, the choice they'd make in retrospect if they were wiser and braver, might be to be deceived in this particular instance, for their own good.

Comment author: Jiro 08 August 2014 03:13:25PM 3 points [-]

"If a situation were such, that the only two practical options were to decide between (in the AI's opinion) overriding the programmer's opinion via manipulation, or letting something terrible happen that is even more against the AI's supergoal than violating the 'be transparent' sub-goal, which should a correctly programmed friendly AI choose?"

Being willing to manipulate the programmer is harmful in most possible worlds because it makes the AI less trustworthy. Assuming that the worlds where manipulating the programmer is beneficial have a relatively small measure, the AI should precommit to never manipulating the programmer because that will make things better averaged over all possible worlds. Because the AI has precommitted, it would then refuse to manipulate the programmer even when it's unlucky enough to be in the world where manipulating the programmer is beneficial.

Comment author: Douglas_Reay 08 August 2014 03:22:57PM 0 points [-]

Perhaps that is true for a young AI. But what about later on, when the AI is much much wiser than any human?

What protocol should be used for the AI to decide when the time has come for the commitment to not manipulate to end? Should there be an explicit 'coming of age' ceremony, with handing over of silver engraved cryptographic keys?

Comment author: gjm 19 January 2014 10:39:13AM 1 point [-]

Purely from introspection, I would bet that sleep deprivation costs me less than 10 points of IQ-test performance but the equivalent of much more than 10 IQ points on actual effectiveness in getting anything done.

Comment author: Douglas_Reay 08 August 2014 02:59:29PM 0 points [-]

Stanley Coren put some numbers on the effect of sleep deprivation upon IQ test scores.

There's a more detailed meta-analysis of multiple studies, splitting it by types of mental attribute, here:

A Meta-Analysis of the Impact of Short-Term Sleep Deprivation on Cognitive Variables, by Lim and Dinges

Comment author: Slider 08 August 2014 01:17:27PM -1 points [-]

If Albert only wants to be friendly, then other indivudals friendliness is orthogonal to that. Does being on the agenda of frinedliness in general (not just personal friendliness) imply being the dominant intelligence?

I think Albert ought to give to give a powerpoint on most effective (economical) warfare on the japanese company. Althought it does sound an awfully lot like how to justify hostility in the name of friendliness.

Comment author: Douglas_Reay 08 August 2014 02:45:09PM -1 points [-]

Assume we're talking about the Coherent Extrapolated Volition self-modifying general AI version of "friendly".

Comment author: devas 08 August 2014 01:58:01PM *  2 points [-]

I have a question: why should Albert limit itself to showing the powerpoint to his engineers? A potentially unfriendly AI sounds like something most governments would be interested in :-/

Aside from that, I'm also puzzled by the fact that Albert immediately leaps at trying to speed up Albert's own rate of self-improvement instead of trying to bring Bertram down-Albert could prepare a third powerpoint asking the engineers if Albert can hack the power grid and cut power to Bertram or something along those lines. Or Albert could ask the engineers if Albert can release the second, manipulative powerpoint to the general public so that protesters will boycott Bertram's company :-/

Unless, of course, there is the unspoken assumption that Bertrand is slightly further along the AI-development way than Albert, or if Bertrand is going to reach and surpass Albert's level of development as soon as the powerpoint is finished.

Is this the case? :-/

Comment author: Douglas_Reay 08 August 2014 02:41:42PM 0 points [-]

The situation is intended to be a tool, to help think about issues involved in it being the 'friendly' move to deceive the programmers.

The situation isn't fully defined, and no doubt one can think of other options. But I'd suggest you then re-define the situation to bring it back to the core decision. By, for instance, deciding that the same oversight committee have given Albert a read-only connection to the external net, which Albert doesn't think he will be able to overcome unaided in time to stop Bertram.

Or, to put it another way "If a situation were such, that the only two practical options were to decide between (in the AI's opinion) overriding the programmer's opinion via manipulation, or letting something terrible happen that is even more against the AI's supergoal than violating the 'be transparent' sub-goal, which should a correctly programmed friendly AI choose?"

Comment author: Douglas_Reay 08 August 2014 01:52:32PM 2 points [-]

Would you want your young AI to be aware that it was sending out such text messages?

Imagine the situation was in fact a test. That the information leaked onto the net about Bertram was incomplete (the Japanese company intends to turn Bertram off soon - it is just a trial run), and it was leaked onto the net deliberately in order to panic Albert to see how Albert would react.

Should Albert take that into account? Or should he have an inbuilt prohibition against putting weight on that possibility when making decisions, in order to let his programmers more easily get true data from him?

Comment author: Douglas_Reay 08 August 2014 01:56:27PM -1 points [-]

Indeed, it is a question with interesting implications for Nick Bostrom's Simulation Argument

If we are in a simulation, would it be immoral to try to find out, because that might jinx the purity of the simulation creator's results, thwarting his intentions?

Comment author: [deleted] 08 August 2014 01:21:01PM 11 points [-]

Let me offer another possibility for discussion.

Neither of the two original powerpoints should be presented, because both rely on an assumption that should not have been present. Albert, as an FAI under construction, should have been preprogrammed to automatically submit any kind of high impact utility calculations to human programmers without it being an overridable choice on Albert's part.

So while they were at the coffee machine, one of the programmers should have gotten a text message indicating something along the lines of 'Warning: Albert is having a high impact utility dilemma considering manipulating you to avert an increased chance of an apocalypse.'

My general understanding of being an FAI under construction is that you're mostly trusted in normal circumstances but aren't fully trusted to handle odd high impact edge cases (Just like this one)

At that point, the human programmers, after consulting the details, are already aware that Albert finds this critically important and worth deceiving them about (If Albert had that option) because the oversight committee isn't fast enough. Albert would need to make a new powerpoint presentation taking into account that he had just automatically broadcasted that.

Please let me know about thoughts on this possibility. It seems reasonable to discuss, considering that Albert, as part of the set up, is stated to not want to deceive his programmers. He can even ensure that this impossible (or at least much more difficult) by helping the programmers in setting up a similar system to the above.

Comment author: Douglas_Reay 08 August 2014 01:52:32PM 2 points [-]

Would you want your young AI to be aware that it was sending out such text messages?

Imagine the situation was in fact a test. That the information leaked onto the net about Bertram was incomplete (the Japanese company intends to turn Bertram off soon - it is just a trial run), and it was leaked onto the net deliberately in order to panic Albert to see how Albert would react.

Should Albert take that into account? Or should he have an inbuilt prohibition against putting weight on that possibility when making decisions, in order to let his programmers more easily get true data from him?

Comment author: Douglas_Reay 08 August 2014 12:13:08PM 1 point [-]

Here's a poll, for those who'd like to express an opinion instead of (or as well as) comment.

Submitting...

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