Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 04 August 2007 04:43:56AM 65 points [-]

1) Because they'll say with their lips, "Oh, well, I just want the true essence" and then go on denying homosexuals the right to marry because it's the word of God.

2) What's left, exactly?

3) Nazism would have been unexceptional if it had been an ancient religion instead of a modern government. Why can't modern Nazis disavow ancient Nazi practice in favor of some true essence that makes sense in modern terms?

4) Why not start your search for the true essence in Lord of the Rings, which dominates the Bible both ethically and aesthetically? Or Harry Potter? Or Oh My Goddess?

And above all,

5) Because it's a fantastically elaborate way of refusing to admit you were wrong.

Comment author: Ebthgidr 31 December 2013 05:49:09PM -1 points [-]

For number 3, I realize the implied point, and I assume that there is more to this argument, but that sentence was one big strawman. Also, I would respond by asking why someone following the 'true essence' but confirming to modern societal/ethical norms is any worse than someone who is following said norms for a different reason. For #4, those novels don't explicitly provide ethical direction-one can use a system of ethical precepts without it being absolute and unchangeable.

Comment author: Tiiba2 27 August 2007 02:45:00AM 4 points [-]

I'm getting the feeling that Eliezer is starting to get overly eager to attack semantic stopsigns. I recommend magic oil in the evening and emergent phenomena in the morning.

My impression of "emergence" was that it's closely related to pattern recognition. You have atoms A, B..ZZZZZZZZZZ, and you recognize that these atoms form a certain pattern. So you say that a supercluster of galaxies/bar stool/intelligence "emerges" from a bunch of atoms.

I once had a prolonged debate with an anticognitivist. He, as usual, argued that no matter what kind of AI you build, if you take it apart, it's just "switches flipping". In that debate, I maintained that intelligence does not require anything else - it emerges from switches flipping the same way that Firefox emerges from switches flipping. Both are just human names for patterns that arise in a sea of subatomic particles.

[That was one frustrating debate... Both of us were equally bewildered that the other refuses to get it.]

Comment author: Ebthgidr 31 December 2013 12:59:59AM 2 points [-]

Isn't his usage of "switches flipping" basically another 'literary genre' switch--i.e. he had attached some sort of negative connotation to the phrase which he could not conceive of attaching to intelligence?

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