Comment author: Elo 11 October 2016 01:06:48AM -2 points [-]

https://www.ted.com/talks/amy_webb_how_i_hacked_online_dating

this is a relevant ted talk. She does a similar process to what I worked through.

Comment author: gwern 29 September 2016 11:34:19PM *  0 points [-]

OK, no complaints so far, so I'm just going to launch it. Consider the survey now live. Did I mention that there will be cake?

Comment author: Elo 30 September 2016 12:50:31AM -2 points [-]

cat weight might be relevant, cat current age, cat body shape (fat/skinny), description of cat's response to catnip,

Comment author: gwern 29 September 2016 11:34:19PM *  0 points [-]

OK, no complaints so far, so I'm just going to launch it. Consider the survey now live. Did I mention that there will be cake?

Comment author: Elo 30 September 2016 12:48:06AM -2 points [-]

I am no expert, but I wonder if you could run a monte-carlo on your expected responses. Do the questions you ask give you enough information to yield results?

Just not sure if your questions are honing correctly. Chances are there are people that know better than me.

Comment author: ChristianKl 26 September 2016 10:21:24PM 2 points [-]

I think Elo and Nancy have moderator rights. Various older people who don't frequent the website like EY also have moderator rights.

Comment author: Elo 27 September 2016 02:36:16AM -2 points [-]

yes

Comment author: ChristianKl 23 September 2016 01:54:25PM 0 points [-]

soul to soul

Those are interesting semantics.

Comment author: Elo 25 September 2016 07:26:38PM -2 points [-]

not necessarily in lw jargon, but it appeals to some.

Comment author: moridinamael 20 September 2016 07:41:09PM *  1 point [-]

I have a name that I want to give my new product. That name is already trademarked for an unrelated use. Is it a bad idea to go ahead and use that product name? Is a trademark comprehensive enough that I should just pick a different name?

Comment author: Elo 21 September 2016 11:30:07PM -2 points [-]

is it google-able. If you google the name, will you show up easy? That's what having a name is all about right?

Comment author: Elo 21 September 2016 11:28:58PM -2 points [-]

have updated the list of common human goals.
http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/mnz/list_of_common_human_goals/

social looked like:

Social - are you spending time socially? No man is an island, do you have regular social opportunities, do you have exploratory social opportunities to meet new people. Do you have an established social network? Do you have intimacy?

and now looks like:

Social - are you spending time socially? No man is an island, do you have regular social opportunities, do you have exploratory social opportunities to meet new people. Do you have an established social network? Do you have intimacy? Do you have seek opportunities to have soul to soul experiences with other people? Authentic connection?

From feedback from someone who felt it wasn't covered and had a strong goal of authentic connection.

http://bearlamp.com.au/list-of-common-human-goals/

Adding and removing complexity from models

-5 Elo 19 September 2016 11:31PM

Original post: http://bearlamp.com.au/adding-and-removing-complexity-from-models/


I had a really interesting conversation with a guy about modelling information.  what I did when talking to him is in one case insist that his model be made more simple because adding more variation in the model was unhelpful, and then in another case in the same conversation, insist his model be made more complicated to account for the available information that didn't fit his model.

On reflection I realised that I had applied two opposing forces to models of information and could only vaguely explain why.  With that in mind I decided to work out what was going on.  The following is obvious, but that's why I am writing it out, so that no one else has to do the obvious thing.


Case where a model should be simplified

This all comes down to what you are measuring or describing.  If you are trying to describe something rather general, like "what impact do number of beach-goers have on the pollution at the beach?", it's probably not important what gender, age, race, time spent at the beach or socioeconomic status the beach goers are.  (With the exception of maybe socioeconomic status of the surrounding geopolitical territory), what is important is maybe two pieces of information: 

  1. A measure of the number of beach goers
  2. A measure of the pollution

That's it.  This would be a case for reducing the survey of beach goers down to a counter of beach goers and a daily photo of the remaining state of the beach at the end of the day (which could be compared to other similar photos).  Or even just - 3 photos, one at 9am (start), one at 1pm (peak) and one at 5pm (end).  This model needs no more moving parts.  The day you want to start using historic information to decide how many beach cleaners you want to employ, you can do that from the limited but effective data you have gathered.

Case where a model should have more moving parts added to it.

Let's continue the same example.  You have 3 photos of each day, but sometimes the 1pm photo is deserted.  Nearly no one is at the beach, and you wonder why.  It's also messing with your predictions because there is still a bit of rubbish at 5pm even though very few people were at the beach.  The model no longer explains the state of the world.  The map is wrong.  But that's okay.  We can fix it by adding more information.  You notice that most days the model is good, so there might be something going on for the other days which needs a + k factor to the equation (+k is something added in chemistry, in algebra it's sometimes called a +c as in y=mx+b+c, and physics +x, but generally adding a variable to an equation is common to all science fields).  Some new variable.

Let's say that being omniscient to our own made up examples we know that the cause is the weather.  On stormy windy rainy days - no one goes to the beach, but some rubbish washes up.  Does this match the data? almost perfectly.  Does this help explain the map?  Yes.  Is it necessary?  That depends on what you are doing with the information.  Maybe it's significant enough in this scenario that it is necessary.


Second example

The example that came up in conversation was his own internal model that there is fundamentally something different between someone who does exercise, and someone who Doesn't exercise.  I challenged this model for having too much complexity.  I argue that the model of - there is a hidden and secret moving part between does/doesn't exercise, is a model that doesn't describe the world better than a model without that moving part.  

The model does something else (and found its way into existence for this reason).  If you find yourself on one side of the model (i.e. the "I don't exercise") then you can protect yourself from attributing the failure to exercise to your own inability to do it by declaring that there is a hidden and secret moving part that prevents me from being in the other observable group.  This preserves your non-changing and let's you get away with it for a longer time.  I know this model because that is what I did.  I held this model very strongly.  And then I went out and searched for the hidden and secret moving part that I could change in order to move myself into the other group.  There was no hidden and secret moving part.  Or if there was I couldn't find it.  However, I did manage to stop holding the model that there was some hidden and secret moving part, and instead just start exercising more.

In figuring out if this model is real or a made up model to protect your own brain from being critical of itself, start to think of what the world would look like if it were true.  If there was some difference between people who do exercise and people who do not - we might see people clustered in observable groups and never be able to change between them (This is not true because we regularly see people publishing their weight loss journeys, we also regularly see people getting fatter and unhealthier, suggesting that travel in either direction is entirely possible and happens all the time).  If there were something describable it would be as obvious as different species, in fact - thinking evolutionarily - if such a thing existed, it's likely that it would have significantly shaped the state of the world already to be completely different...  Given that we can't know for sure, this might not be a very strong argument.  

If you got this far - as I did and wondered, so why can't I be in the other group - I have news for you.  You can.


  • Does this pattern of models with too many moving parts sound familiar to another model you have seen in action?  
  • Is there a model that you use that could do with more moving parts?

Meta: this took an hour to write.  If I were to spend more time on it, it would probably be to tighten up the examples and maybe provide more examples.  I am not sure that such time would be useful to you and am interested in if you think it will be useful.

Comment author: DataPacRat 08 September 2016 03:20:15PM 0 points [-]

I am, close to literally, starting from scratch, exercise-wise. I've started a thread in the bodyweight subreddit about a better exercise regimen, and am entirely literally in a mall right now looking for some exercise bands to let me do more types of movements in the area I have to exercise in. You could think of the burpees as a placeholder while I work out something better.

Comment author: Elo 09 September 2016 06:46:20AM -2 points [-]

Consider couch to 5k. It's a good basic place to start.

Expect at least 2 months before you are feeling fit. You get to feel progress in the sense of "could run a bit further today" each new run. the two most important things:

  1. You will get hurt. You will injure yourself. If you think you won't you definitely will, and you will have to take rest because of it. It might set you back days or weeks. But it's better to rest.
  2. You actually make gains to muscle and strength on your days off. When the muscles repair and grow back. Because of this - most of the pages on the fitness subreddits will have a 3-4 days a week routine with rest days in between. Rest days are important.
Comment author: Viliam 06 September 2016 12:50:29PM *  1 point [-]

First, thank you for trying to solve the problem.

However, I think that the "volume of writing" is not exactly the best thing to optimize. Consider this: during the era of the Sequences, LW only had one article per day, which is about three times less than it has now, and yet people didn't complain that it was "dying", unlike now.

It's natural that when people find a resource they like, their reaction is: "more! more! more!". But getting more content sometimes lowers the quality. And then people complain about the lower quality, but when you try reverting to the previous state, now they would feel angry about the smaller frequency, and you just can't win. And when in the name of higher volume the lower quality gets accepted, many writers lose the incentive to produce higher quality.

(By the way, I am curious how many people complaining about not enough new content on LW still haven't read the Sequences, because that's too long.)

The quality and the volume are in tension. Yes, it is possible to increase both -- in long term, by attracting new good writers, and in short term, by motivating the existing ones to give writing a higher priority -- but if you stretch it too far, you can only increase one at the expense of the other.

The original division of LW to "Main" and "Discussion" tried to be a solution to this problem: keep the high quality in "Main" and the larger volume in "Discussion". It didn't work as expected.

My personal opinion is that as long as we want higher quality, the low volume is something we should expect. We want high-quality texts from the kinds of people who (1) are quite rare in nature, and (2) don't make money writing texts, i.e. they are not professional writers or journalists. Doing real stuff takes time. Learning valuable stuff takes time.

I am afraid that this is a self-reinforcing problem -- greater volume attracts people who spend more time procrastinating online, and in turn, those people demand even greater volume because that's how they prefer to spend their time. And those people are going to dominate the discussions. And even get most comment karma. (Just looking at myself: the lower my productivity in real life, the higher my LW karma. It's almost as if spending hours on LW prevents me from getting real stuff done. Almost as if time is a scarce resource.)

Maybe the whole LW should be redesigned, and split into two completely independent parts: (1) the website with the selected high-quality articles, even if it means one article per month; and (2) the chatroom. Not just two web pages, but two separate communities. There is no reason why the people most active in the chatroom should have more voice about the article publishing; they are in a completely different line of business.

(Plus the elephant in the room: the vote manipulation, and the tech support that cannot solve it. But some of the problems would remain even if this would be solved.)

Comment author: Elo 06 September 2016 11:02:04PM -2 points [-]

"volume of writing"

I should clarify because I mixed a few problems into one when talking about them.

  1. low volume of posts on lw
  2. low volume of writing coming from me personally
  3. quality of my writing

while partly trying to solve the community's low volume problem I was trying to solve my own low volume problem. Now that I am fairly happy with my personal solution, I was planning to solve my quality problem, and that should help the LW volume problem properly.

Separate but relevant: All of the posts that I wrote and think are the most valuable posts that I have written - were not possible to predict before writing. So in a sense I have to have written out the idea before realising it's value, and I would say also that I have to share the idea in order to figure out how much people care about it before noticing how important/valuable it is.

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