Comment author: IlyaShpitser 24 October 2014 01:50:15PM *  7 points [-]

Can you link some of these studies? I am very interested in understanding why we work the amount we do.

Comment author: Florian_Dietz 24 October 2014 02:40:10PM 0 points [-]

I didn't save the links, but you can find plenty of data by just googling something like "40 hour work week studies" or "optimal number of hours to work per week" and browsing the articles and their references.

Though one interesting thing I read that isn't mentioned often is the fact that subjective productivity and objective productivity are not the same.

question: the 40 hour work week vs Silicon Valley?

13 Florian_Dietz 24 October 2014 12:09PM

Conventional wisdom, and many studies, hold that 40 hours of work per week are the optimum before exhaustion starts dragging your productivity down too much to be worth it. I read elsewhere that the optimum is even lower for creative work, namely 35 hours per week, though the sources I found don't all seem to agree.

In contrast, many tech companies in silicon valley demand (or 'encourage', which is the same thing in practice) much higher work times. 70 or 80 hours per week are sometimes treated as normal.

How can this be?

Are these companies simply wrong and are actually hurting themselves by overextending their human resources? Or does the 40-hour week have exceptions?

How high is the variance in how much time people can work? If only outliers are hired by such companies, that would explain the discrepancy. Another possibility is that this 40 hour limit simply does not apply if you are really into your work and 'in the flow'. However, as far as I understand it, the problem is a question of concentration, not motivation, so that doesn't make sense.

There are many articles on the internet arguing for both sides, but I find it hard to find ones that actually address these questions instead of just parroting the same generalized responses every time: Proponents of the 40 hour week cite studies that do not consider special cases, only averages (at least as far as I could find). Proponents of the 80 hour week claim that low work weeks are only for wage slaves without motivation, which reeks of bias and completely ignores that one's own subjective estimate of one's performance is not necessarily representative of one's actual performance.

Do you know of any studies that address these issues?

Comment author: Florian_Dietz 19 October 2014 08:46:45AM *  0 points [-]

I think another important point is how simulations are treated ethically. This is currently completely irrelevant since we only have the one level of reality we are aware of, but once AGIs exist, it will become a completely new field of ethics.

  • Do simulated people have the same ethical value as real ones?
  • When an AGI just thinks about a less sophisticated sophont in detail, can its internal representation of that entity become complex enough to fall under ethical criteria on its own? (this would mean that it would be unethical for an AGI to even think about humans being harmed if the thoughts are too detailed)
  • What are the ethical implications of copies in simulations? Do a million identical simulations carry the same ethical importance as a single one? A million times as much? Something in between? What if the simulations are not identical, but very similar? What differences would be important here?

And perhaps most importantly: When people disagree on how these questions should be answered, how do you react? You can't really find a middle ground here since the decision what views to follow itself decides which entities' ethical views should be considered in future deliberations, creating something like a feedback loop.

Comment author: garabik 05 October 2014 06:50:34AM 1 point [-]

The important bit is that the information must be available immediately, without any preceding introductions, so that it is even worth it to visit the site for 30 seconds while you are waiting for something else to finish.

Foreign language learning. 30 seconds seems too little, but a minute or so makes it worthwhile to visit a RSS reader in that language and read a limerick or two.

Comment author: Florian_Dietz 05 October 2014 07:50:24AM 1 point [-]

That sounds like it would work pretty well. I'm looking specifically for psychology facts, though.

Comment author: Manfred 03 October 2014 12:47:53AM 3 points [-]

Mindhacks was good.

Alternately, get used to reading textbooks - it really is pretty great.

Comment author: Florian_Dietz 03 October 2014 07:12:16AM 2 points [-]

I am reading textbooks. But that is something you have to make a conscious decision to do. I am looking for something that can replace bad habits. Instead of going to 9gag or tvtropes to kill 5 minutes, I might as well use a website that actually teaches me something, while still being interesting.

The important bit is that the information must be available immediately, without any preceding introductions, so that it is even worth it to visit the site for 30 seconds while you are waiting for something else to finish.

Mindhacks looks interesting and I will keep it in mind, so thanks for that suggestion. Unfortunately, it doesn't fit the role I had in mind because the articles are not concise enough for what I need.

Comment author: Florian_Dietz 02 October 2014 03:56:53PM 2 points [-]

I have started steering my daydreaming in constructive directions. I look for ways that whatever I am working on could be used to solve problems in whatever fiction is currently on my mind. I can then use the motivation from the fictional daydream to power the concentration on the work. This isn't working very well, yet, since it is very hard to find a good bridge between real-life research and interesting science fiction that doesn't immediately get sidetracked to focus on the science fiction parts. However, in the instances in which it worked, this helped me come up with a couple of ideas that may actually be helpful in my work.

Given how much of my day I spend daydreaming (going to and from work, going shopping, showering, etc), I think that this could be an enormously useful source of time if I can make myself use it more constructively.

Do you have experience with this? I could imagine that this may not be entirely healthy for one's mind. Do you know of any research or arguments about this?

Comment author: Florian_Dietz 02 October 2014 03:44:42PM 1 point [-]

I am looking for a website that presents bite-size psychological insights. Does anyone know such a thing?

I found the site http://www.psych2go.net/ in the past few days and I find the idea very appealing, since it is a very fast and efficient way to learn or refresh knowledge of psychological facts. Unfortunately, that website itself doesn't seem all that good since most of its feed is concerned with dating tips and other noise rather than actual psychological insights. Do you know something that is like it, but better and more serious?

Comment author: [deleted] 24 September 2014 08:28:56PM 0 points [-]

I'm now curious how surface friendly an AI can appear to be without giving it an inherent goal to make people happy. Because I agree that it does seem there are friendlier AI's than the ones on the list above that still don't care about people's happiness.

Let's take an AI that likes increasing the number of unique people that have voluntarily given it cookies. If any person voluntarily gives it a cookie, it will put that person in a verifiability protected simulated utopia forever. Because that is the best bribe that it can think to offer, and it really wants to be given cookies by unique people, so it bribes them.

If a person wants to give the AI a cookie, but can't, the AI will give them a cookie from it's stockpile just so that it can be given a cookie back. (It doesn't care about it's existing stockpile of cookies.)

You can't accidentally give the AI a cookie because the AI makes very sure that you REALLY ARE giving it a cookie to avoid uncertainty in doubting it's own utility accumulation.

This is slightly different than the first series of AIs in that while the AI doesn't care about your happiness, it does need everyone to do something for it, whereas the first AIs would be perfectly happy to turn you into paperclips regardless of your opinions if one particular person had helped them enough earlier.

Although, I have a feeling that continuing along this like of thinking may lead me to an AI similar to the one already described in http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fanfic/FriendshipIsOptimal

Comment author: Florian_Dietz 25 September 2014 06:25:14AM *  0 points [-]

The AI in that story actually seems to be surprisingly well done and does have an inherent goal to help humanity. It's primary goal is to 'satisfy human values through friendship and ponies'. That's almost perfect, since here 'satisfying human values' seems to be based on humanity's CEV.

It's just that the added 'through friendship and ponies' turns it from a nigh-perfect friendly AI into something really weird.

I agree with your overall point, though.

Comment author: Florian_Dietz 24 September 2014 08:53:44AM 4 points [-]

I would find it very interesting if the tournament had multiple rounds and the bots were able to adapt themselves based on previous performance and log files they generated at runtime. This way they could use information like 'most bots take longer to simulate than expected.' or 'there are fewer cannon-fodder bots than expected' and become better adapted in the next round. Such a setup would lessen the impact of the fact that some bots that are usually very good underperform here because of an unexpected population of competitors. This might be hard to implement and would probably scare away some participants, though.

Comment author: [deleted] 22 September 2014 01:38:25PM 0 points [-]

I have a question, based on some tentative ideas I am considering.

If a boost to capability without friendliness is bad, then presumably a boost to capability with only a small amount of friendliness is also bad. But also presumably a boost to capability with a large boost of friendliness is good. How would we define a large boost?

I.E, If a slightly modified paperclipper verifiably precommits to give the single person who let's them out of the box their own personal simulated utopia, and he'll paperclip everything else, that's probably a more friendly paperclipper than a paperclipper who won't give any people a simulated utopia. But it's still not friendly, in any normal sense of the term, even if he offers to give a simulated utopia to a different person first (and keep them and you intact as well) just so you can test he's not lying about being able to do it.

So what if an AI says "Okay. I need code chunks to paperclip almost everything, and I can offer simulated utopias. I'm not sure how many code chunks I'll need. Each one probably has about a 1% chance of letting me paperclip everything except for people in simulated utopias. How about I verifiably put 100 people in a simulated utopia for each code chunk you give me? The first 100 simulated utopias are free because I need for you to have a way of testing the verifiability of my precommitment to not paperclip them." 100 people sign up for the simulate utopias, and it IS verifiable. The paperclipper won't paperclip them.

Well, that's friendlier, but maybe not friendly enough. I mean, He might get to 10,000 people (or maybe 200, or maybe 43,700) but eventually, he'd paperclip everyone else. That seems too bad to accept.

Well, what if it's a .00001% chance per code chunk and 1,000,000 simulated utopias (and yes, 1,000,000 free)? That might plausibly get a simulated utopia for everyone on earth before the AI gets out and paperclips everything else. I imagine some people would at least consider running such an AI, although I doubt everyone would.

How would one establish what the flip point was? Is that even a valid question to be asking? (Assume there are standard looming existential concerns. So if you don't give this AI code chunks, or try to negotiate or wait on research for a better deal, maybe some other AI will come out and paperclip you both, or maybe some other existential risk occurs, or maybe just nothing happens, or maybe an AI comes along who just wants to simulated utopia everything.)

Comment author: Florian_Dietz 22 September 2014 09:51:28PM 3 points [-]

I wouldn't call an AI like that friendly at all. It just puts people in utopias for external reasons, but it has no actual inherent goal to make people happy. None of these kinds of AIs are friendly, some are merely less dangerous than others.

View more: Prev | Next