Comment author: Adele_L 11 August 2014 04:13:36PM *  19 points [-]

When I was a teenager, I imagined that if you had just a tiny infinitesimally small piece of a curve - there would only be one moral way to extend it. Obviously, an extension would have to be connected to it, but also, you would want it to connect without any kinks. And just having straight-lines connected to it wouldn't be right, it would have to be curved in the same sort of way - and so on, to higher-and-higher orders. Later I realized that this is essentially what a Taylor series is.

I also had this idea when I was learning category theory that objects were points, morphisms were lines, composition was a triangle, and associativity was a tetrahedron. It's not especially sophisticated, but it turns out this idea is useful for n-categories.

Recently, I have been learning about neural networks. I was working on implementing a fairly basic one, and I had a few ideas for improving neural networks: making them more modular - so neurons in the next layer are only connected to a certain subset of neurons in the previous layer. I read about V1, and together, these led to the idea that you arrange things so they take into account the topology of the inputs - so for image processing, having neurons connected to small, overlapping, circles of inputs. Then I realized you would want multiple neurons with the same inputs that were detecting different features, and that you could reuse training data for neurons with different inputs detecting the same feature - saving computation cycles. So for the whole network, you would build up from local to global features as you applied more layers - which suggested that sheaf theory may be useful for studying these. I was planning to work out details, and try implementing as much of this as I could (and still intend to as an exercise), but the next day I found that this was essentially the idea behind convolutional neural networks. I'm rather pleased with myself since CNNs are apparently state-of-the-art for many image recognition tasks (some fun examples). The sheaf theory stuff seems to be original to me though, and I hope to see if applying Gougen's sheaf semantics would be useful/interesting.

I really wish I was better at actually implementing/working out the details of my ideas. That part is really hard.

Comment author: HopefullyCreative 13 August 2014 07:21:50AM 3 points [-]

I had to laugh at your conclusion. The implementation is the most enjoyable part. "How can I dumb this amazing idea down to the most basic understandable levels so it can be applied?" Sometimes you come up with a solution only to have a feverish fit of maddening genius weeks later finding a BETTER solution.

In my first foray into robotics I needed to write a radio positioning program/system for the little guys so they would all know where they were not globally but relative to each other and the work site. I was completely unable to find the math simply spelled out online and to admit at this point in my life I was a former marine who was not quite up to college level math. In banging my head against the table for hours I came up with an initial solution that found a position accounting for three dimensions(allowing for the target object to be in any position relative to the stationary receivers). Eventually I came up with an even better solution that also came up with new ideas for the robot's antenna design and therefore tweaking the solution even more.

That was some of the most fun I have ever had...

Comment author: sixes_and_sevens 11 August 2014 02:57:22PM *  9 points [-]

What sophisticated ideas did you come up with independently before encountering them in a more formal context?

I'm pretty sure that in my youth I independently came up with rudimentary versions of the anthropic principle and the Problem of Evil. Looking over my Livejournal archive, I was clearly not a fearsome philosophical mind in my late teens, (or now, frankly), so it seems safe to say that these ideas aren't difficult to stumble across.

While discussing this at the most recent London Less Wrong meetup, another attendee claimed to have independently arrived at Pascal's Wager. I've seen a couple of different people speculate that cultural and ideological artefacts are subject to selection and evolutionary pressures without ever themselves having come across memetics as a concept.

I'm still thinking about ideas we come up with that stand to reason. Rather than prime you all with the hazy ideas I have about the sorts of ideas people converge on while armchair-theorising, I'd like to solicit some more examples. What ideas of this sort did you come up with independently, only to discover they were already "a thing"?

Comment author: HopefullyCreative 13 August 2014 07:07:05AM *  4 points [-]

I had drawn up some rather detailed ideas for an atomic powered future: The idea was to solve two major problems. The first was the inherent risk of an over pressure causing such a power plant to explode. The second problem to solve was the looming water shortage facing many nations.

The idea was a power plant that used internal sterling technology so as to operate at atmospheric pressures. Reinforcing this idea was basically a design for the reactor to "entomb" itself if it reached temperatures high enough to melt its shell. The top of the sterling engine would have a salt water reservoir that would be boiled off. The water then would be collected and directed in a piping system to a reservoir. The plant would then both produce electricity AND fresh water.

Of course then while researching thorium power technology in school I discovered that the South Korean SMART micro reactor does in fact desalinate water. On one level I was depressed that my idea was not "original" however, overall I'm exited that I came up with an idea that apparently had enough merit for people actually go through and make a finished design based upon it. The fact that my idea had merit at all gives me hope for my future as an engineer.

Comment author: Mac 13 August 2014 01:59:43AM 2 points [-]

OK, so the second half of your post discussing the pros and cons of mechanical and biological modification assumes a world without AGI? Otherwise, the endeavor is useless because the AGI could simply figure it out for us.

My primary purpose of AGI: to create a perpetual state of bliss for all current humans (maybe future generations and other sentient beings as well, but that's a longer discussion). I'll trade "creative glorious work" for Heaven any day of the week. Even if you require the satisfaction from working to achieve bliss, the AGI can oblige you.

Comment author: HopefullyCreative 13 August 2014 06:46:28AM 0 points [-]

I certainly liked this post for the fact that you noticed that the AGI would probably figure out all the pros and cons for us. I did however figure it would be enjoyable for us in our world that currently lacks any AGI to discuss them though :).

Anyway I cannot really relate with the desired goal for an AGI. I much rather do an eternity in hell with all its cognitive stimulation than rot in "heaven". Look at our experiences with the elderly that we resign to homes where their minds literally rot from lack of use.

I am merely pointing out the horror of never having to actually think for yourself or actually do anything. Suddenly any purpose that we can find in the world is gone and our bodies as well as our minds begin to rot as we use them less and less.

Comment author: advancedatheist 13 August 2014 04:09:45AM 1 point [-]

It actually poses the question, are the current limits on human intelligence due to the human being's genetic design or is it due to poor education?

Education can't make dumb people smart, but it can work wonders for naturally smart people. The other day I suggested that if we had to put a badly run country into receivership and straighten it out, I would pick North Korea because of the natural experiment that has happened on that peninsula. Their cousins to the south show that the extended Korean tribe has the genetic goods to benefit from the investment.

Comment author: HopefullyCreative 13 August 2014 06:40:45AM 0 points [-]

What I was fundamentally wondering with the above post was the relationship of developmental education and eventual I.Q. Such as given identical genetic characteristics would heightened mental stimulation during early brain development greatly improve the I.Q. over the control?

Comment author: ArisKatsaris 12 August 2014 09:57:14PM 2 points [-]

"Instead our army of AGI has robbed us of that."

If by the human valuation system this would be a loss compared to the alternative, and if the AGI accurately promoted human values, doesn't it follow that it would not choose to so "rob" us?

Comment author: HopefullyCreative 13 August 2014 12:44:24AM 1 point [-]

Suppose we created an AGI the greatest mind ever conceived and we created it to solve humanities greatest problems. An ideal methodology for the AGI to do this would to ask for factories to produce physical components to copy itself over and over. The AGI then networks its copies all over the world creating a global mind and then generates a hoard of "mobile platforms" from which to observe, study and experiment with the world for its designed purpose.

The "robbery" is not intentional, its not intending to make mankind meaningless. The machine is merely meeting its objective of doing its utmost to find the solutions to problems for humanity. The horror is that as the machine mind expands networking its copies together and as it sends its mobile platforms out into the world eventually human discovery and invention would be dwarfed by this being. Outside of social and political forces destroying or dismantling the machine(quite likely) human beings would ultimately be forced with a problem: with the machine thinking of everything for us, and its creations doing all the hard work we really have nothing to do. In order to have anything to do we must improve ourselves to at the very lest have a mind that can compete.

Basically this is all a look at what the world would be like if our current AGI researchers did succeed in building their ideal machine and what it would mean for humanity.

Comment author: Mac 12 August 2014 10:34:11PM 3 points [-]

Given that a friendly AGI’s intellect dwarfs our own, why not ask it how to improve ourselves? It will consider all your concerns and more. Once you get close to the AGI’s intellect, then you will encounter and appreciate unsolved problems. Personally, I’d prefer to be a wirehead.

Comment author: HopefullyCreative 13 August 2014 12:33:37AM 1 point [-]

That's more or less what I stated was the only solution to the problem of finding meaning in a world with such an AGI. This really all comes down to the purpose of the AGI in the first place. w

Comment author: ChristianKl 12 August 2014 09:09:32PM 1 point [-]

You missed the most straightforward way of enhancing humans: Education.

Comment author: HopefullyCreative 13 August 2014 12:30:55AM 0 points [-]

This is a statement that is deeper than it first appears. It actually poses the question, are the current limits on human intelligence due to the human being's genetic design or is it due to poor education?

As in are I.Q. limitations as we observe them due to lack of education?

Of course education is already improving. What is at issue is eventually we will have a world populated with magnificent artificial intelligences that make us look stupid. Its highly probable that our minds will have physical limits well below the sea of intelligence we are about to birth. Therefore we must examine our role, our very sense of purpose and meaning in a potential future where we are no longer capable being the smartest and therefore the "leader"

Questions on the human path and transhumanism.

-1 HopefullyCreative 12 August 2014 08:34PM

I had a waking nightmare: I know some of you reading this just went "Oh great, here we go..." but bear with me. I am a man who loves to create and build, it is what I have dedicated my life to. One day because of the Less Wrong community I was prompted to ask "What if they are successful in creating an artificial general intelligence whose intellect dwarfs our own?"

My mind raced and imagined the creation of an artificial mind designed to be creative, subservient to man but also anticipate our needs and desires. In other words I imagined if current AGI engineers accomplished the creation of the greatest thing ever. Of course this machine would see how we loathe tiresome repetitive work and design and build for us a host of machines to do it for us. However then the horror at the implication of this all set in. The AGI will become smarter and smarter through its own engineering and soon it will anticipate human needs and produce things no human being could dream of. Suddenly man has no work to do, there is no back breaking labor to be done nor even the creative glorious work of engineering, exploring and experimentation. Instead our army of AGI has robbed us of that. 

At this moment I certainly must express that this is not a statement amounting to "Lets not make AGI" for we all know AGI are coming. Then what is my point in expressing this? To express a train of thought that results in questions that have yet to be answered in the hopes that in depth discussion may shed some light.

I realized that the only meaning for man in a world run by AGI would actually be to order the AGI to make man himself better. Instead of focusing on having the AGI design a world for us, use that intellect that we could not before modification compare with to design a means to put us on its own level. In other words, the goal of creating an AGI should not to be to create an AGI but to make a tool so powerful we can use it to command man to be better. Now, I'm quite certain the audience present here is well aware of transhumanism. However, there are some important questions to be answered on the subject:

Mechanical or Biological modification? I know many would think "Are you stupid?! Of course cybernetics would be better than genetic alteration!" Yet the balance of advantages is not as clear as one would think. Lets consider cybernetics for a moment: Many would require maintenance, they would need to be designed and manufactured and therefore quite expensive. They also would need to be installed. Initially, possibly for decades only the rich could afford such a thing creating a titanic rift in power. This power gap of course will widen the already substantial resentment between the regular folk and the rich thereby creating political and social uncertainty which we can ill afford in a world with the kind of destructive power nuclear arms present. 

Genetic alteration comes with a whole new set of problems. A titanic realm of genetic variables in which tweaking one thing may unexpectedly alter and damage another thing. Research in this area could potentially take much longer due to experimentation requirements. However the advantage is that genetic alteration can be accomplished with the help of virus in controlled environments. There would be no mechanic required to maintain the new being we have created and if designed properly the modifications can be passed down to the next generation. So instead of having to pay to upgrade each successive generation we instead only have to pay to upgrade one single generation. The rich obviously would still be the first ones to afford this procedure, however it could quickly spread across the globe due its potentially lower cost nature once development costs have been seen to. However, the problem is that we would be fundamentally and possibly irreversibly be altering our genetic code. Its possible to keep a gene bank so we have a memory of what we were in the hopes we could undo the changes and revert if the worst happened yet that is not the greatest problem with this path. We cannot even get the public to accept the concept of genetically altered crops, how can we get a world to accept its genes being altered? The sort of instability created by trying to push such a thing too hard, or the power gap created by those who have upgraded and who have not can again cause substantial instability that is globally dangerous.

So now I ask you, the audience. Genetic or cybernetic? How would we solve the political problems associated with both? What are the problems with both? 

Comment author: HopefullyCreative 10 August 2014 08:11:33PM 4 points [-]

I long pondered on the concepts above. I had come up with the conclusion "Every movement needs a poet." In your discussion Jesus was one such poet. Its one thing to issue a command to a man's mind, it is quite another altogether to issue a command to a man's soul.

You used examples of revolutionary America, lets look at the details of that a bit more. We had a combination of excellent leaders leading up to that war all of them experts in the field of politics, including George Washington (whom claimed he didn't want the post of commander of the continental army but showed up to the meetings to pick one in a military uniform). As a violent civil disturbance turned successful the continental congress decided that succession was the best plan and commissioned the writing of the declaration of independence. Instead of a full committee writing the document the preamble in all of its poetic glory was written by Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson had filled the role of the fantastic poet and had collected all of the confused feelings and ideas of the founders into one easy to understand and powerful document. He had addressed those who opposed Britain over the issue of slavery as well as those who opposed Britain's increasing autocratic nature. Most importantly his document created a beacon to command that generation and later generations to live up to a set of ideals as the ultimate goal for our nation. The poet commanded the people to be and now as you argued they needed someone with practical skills to make it happen. Its important to note that with such a beacon men are willing to endure no end of hardship to see it happen.

So I wouldn't disagree that "Every Jesus needs a Paul" but I DO argue that if a great poet rises then so too will the fantastic men needed to make the poet's vision happen. Men grow, create and learn the most when necessity demands that they do so. If there is a poet commanding men to greatness then great men is what we will have. Its important to note that for poet to be successful in this manner they must profess ideals that are "virtuous", the more honorable and virtuous they appear the easier it is to find and create great men as well as avoid resistance.

Lets look at your example of Washington and the continental army: Washington was a gallant figure and dressed as such on purpose to command people emotionally. One of his core strategies was to create an image that his men could look up to. As such he was dutiful and never sought leave of the army so he was always there working to further the cause. He was courageous and brave, showing no personal concern at sitting on a horse in a hail of gunfire as he screamed at his men to stand strong. He was even merciful doing his utmost to see to the needs of the enemy wounded and captured. The combination of virtues and the vast quality of his moral superiority meant that great men flocked to him. The first were Nathaniel Green and Henry Knox. Yet he would soon have much needed support form men like Marquis de Lafayette, a man who served with such distinction that there are towns and cities across the United States that are named after him.

So yes, every Jesus needs a Paul. Yet interestingly possibly because every Jesus needs a Paul, for every great Jesus out there a Paul will surely be "born"

Comment author: Lumifer 31 July 2014 07:33:07PM *  0 points [-]

How DOES one change a group of people's moral compass?

Look at Germany in the 1930s.

In response to comment by Lumifer on Gaming Democracy
Comment author: HopefullyCreative 31 July 2014 09:11:27PM 2 points [-]

Actually I argue that there was less change in the 1930's than most people realize. Anti Semitism goes back in Germany for centuries. This is a trend going back to the black death when whole Jewish communities were wiped out. This sentiment remained strong even in the 1930's.

Further, the Nazi party was not expressing anything the German people had not already had a connection with. An example is that the Nazi party expressed the need for an autocratic central figure or group to command and lead the nation. Germany's experience with democracy was fresh and it was associated with the exceptional economic downturn and inflation so high children played with piles of worthless money in the streets.

Of course old German sentiment was tied together with ideas that almost everyone can get behind. In a period of complete economic ruin the Nazi party came and said "Wipe those tears off your face, your better than this. I know this, you know this. Get up. You can do better. You WILL do better. I will not let you fail." You actually see this strategy used in the tv show "kitchen nightmares" by Chef Gordon Ramsey for example. There is also the community aspect that German citizens in particular were in full aggreance with.

From all of my knowledge of German history I see that the Nazi party did not instill new virtues on its people, merely commanded the German people to live up to them. Some of these we can all agree with. Hard work, diligence, responsibility, dedication to community, meaningful sacrifice. Its the others that were so dark.

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