Comment author: timtyler 31 May 2011 08:19:02AM *  1 point [-]

For two, that emphasis on the problem of suffering seems very reasonable to me. Buddhism holds that the problem with this world is suffering, and that suffering can be alleviated by methods somewhat similar to the ones in Kaj_Sotala's post.

Take care with psychological techniques oriented towards reducing self-suffering. Suffering is an important signal that something is wrong. Pain is similar. If you ignore or damp down the signal, that is a kind of self-sabotage. Sometimes the paradoxical effect is to increase the number of your long term problems. Instead, it is often best to respect and heed the signal - and track down the causes of the problem it is indicating.

Comment author: Hul-Gil 31 May 2011 11:53:41PM 0 points [-]

Tracking down and fixing the problems is another way to reduce suffering. I understand and agree with what you say, but just want to point out "alleviating suffering" doesn't necessarily mean only "ignoring suffering".

Overcoming Suffering & Buddhism

2 Hul-Gil 31 May 2011 04:35AM

The recent post (http://lesswrong.com/lw/5xx/overcoming_suffering_emotional_acceptance) by Kaj_Sotala is very reminiscent of Buddhism to me. Since no one has commented with similar sentiments, and since I get the impression Buddhism is not a common topic of discussion here, I thought I'd make a quick article for the curious. I'm not exactly a Buddhist myself, but I have a good few books about the topic and have experienced mild success with meditation.

Buddhism is one of the few religious belief systems not entirely repellent to me, for a couple of reasons. For one, Buddhism - or some traditions thereof, including the "original" (Theravada), I believe - encourages adherents to be skeptical. The emphasis is not on faith, gods, or symbolism, but rather on actual practice and experience: in other words, on obtaining evidence. You can see for yourself whether or not the system works, because the reward is not in another life. It is the cessation of suffering in this one.

For two, that emphasis on the problem of suffering seems very reasonable to me. Buddhism holds that the problem with this world is suffering, and that suffering can be alleviated by methods somewhat similar to the ones in Kaj_Sotala's post. (The choice of the word "mindfulness" - was that a coincidence, or a reference to the Buddhist concept of the same name?) The idea is that suffering results from unfulfilled desires, themselves a product of an uncontrolled mind. You become upset when the world is This Way, but you want it to be That Way; and even if you try to accept the world-as-it-is, your brain is rebellious. Unpleasant feelings arise, unbidden and unwelcome.

The solution, according to Buddhism, is meditation. There are many different types of meditation, both in technique and in topic meditated upon, but I won't go into them here. Meditation appears to be physically healthy just on its own; a quick Google search on "meditation brain" will bring up hundreds of articles about how it affects the thinking organ. However, the main goals of Buddhist meditation are a.) attaining control over your own mind (i.e., learning to separate sense impressions from emotions and values, so that harsh words or even blows cause no corresponding mental disturbance), and b.) attaining insight into Buddhist thought about subjects such as love, impermanence, mindfulness, or skillfulness.

Buddhist thought on some subjects (see next-to-final paragraph) I can leave, but mindfulness and skillfulness seem appropriate to LessWrong. As I understand it, the idea behind mindfulness is simply to be aware of what you're doing, rather than going through the motions - and to be aware of, and fix, cognitive biases. For beliefs and mental processes, failing to hit the "Explain" button (to steal from Mr. Yudkowsky) could be considered un-mindful. Things you don't think about are things you could be getting wrong. Skillfulness is related; it's not about skill at some particular task - it's about maximizing utility, to put it simply. The goal is no wasted or mistaken actions. Your actions should not result in unintended consequences, and your intended consequences should never fail to advance your goals in some way. Rationality is thus a very big part of Buddhism, since it is necessary to be rational to be mindful and skillful!

**One important note:** Buddhism has many traditions, and many, many different beliefs. A great deal of it is about as credible as any other religion. For instance, Buddhism holds that there is no "self", ultimately; however, it also holds that people are reincarnated... so what is it that is being reincarnated? I'm sure there is an apology for this somewhere, but the only explanation I've read made less sense than the question. Karma is also a silly idea, in my opinion. I've picked and chosen regarding Buddhist beliefs, and I'm no expert, so if it turns out what I've written isn't orthodox - well, I've warned you!

That's about all I have to say on the subject. Buddhist methods for overcoming suffering have served me well; it is from Buddhism that I first learned to fight depression over things I can do nothing about, and that regret is only useful insofar as it can inspire you to change, and that there is no excuse for being unskillful and unmindful even in the smallest task. I hope this post has served to impart some knowledge, and/or satisfy (or impart!) some curiosity.

Comment author: KPier 30 May 2011 11:22:38PM 3 points [-]

Thanks! I worried for a while about changing my mind too much on the basis of one blog, and I still don't agree with the Less Wrong consensus on everything, but overall I've found them very helpful. Anything specifically you would view with a skeptical eye?

Comment author: Hul-Gil 31 May 2011 02:33:25AM *  1 point [-]

Nothing specific that I can think of! There are some posts I might disagree with, but I don't think there are any systematic errors being made.¹ I agree with the conclusions laid out in most of the posts here, and with Mr. Yudkowsky's posts in particular. It's just easy to become so enthusiastic about becoming rational "the LessWrong way" that you end up losing that rationality! But this is not so easy as it might be with other topics, perhaps.

¹(An example of a post of Eliezer's that contains some things I disagree with would be "Circular Altruism"; I posted my views and some counter-examples there, so I won't go into it here. However, I recognize many people do agree with him, so I'm not claiming to be entirely certain his conclusions are wrong - my point is just that it's a rare individual who never arrives at an incorrect conclusion!)

Comment author: KPier 30 May 2011 10:22:19PM 23 points [-]

Hello Less Wrong!

I'm 16, female, and a senior in high school. Before I started reading here, I was not particularly interested in math, science, or rationality (which I had never really heard of). I stumbled on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality in October, and fell in love immediately. I read through the whole story in one night, and finally made the leap to Less Wrong during Eliezer's hiatus.

I started on Less Wrong by reading Mysterious Answers to Mysterious Questions and within three posts I realized that, for the first time in my life, I was surrounded by people significantly smarter than me. Some people would probably have been excited about that; I was terrified. I promised myself that I wouldn't post - wouldn't even create an account, to avoid the temptation of posting - until I had read all the sequences and understood everything everyone said.

In retrospect, that may have been setting the bar a little too high for myself, especially since seven more sequences were added while I was reading. I eventually revised my standard to "I will not comment until I'm sure I actually have something to add to a discussion, and until I understand the things I have read well enough to explain them convincingly to 4 of my friends."

The fact that I had to set all of those hurdles for myself just to have the self-confidence to create an account probably tells you a little about myself - I'm not ordinarily insecure, but I was so excited to find something like this I was very worried about "messing it up". I've now read about 90% of the sequences and 98% of everything posted on Less Wrong in the last few months, and understood almost all of it (the quantum physics and decision theory sequences still confuse me). I'm not sure "read everything before you start to contribute" is generally a good guideline for new visitors, but for me it was perfect. I changed my mind about a lot of important things along the way - if there's enough interest, I may discuss this in a post about exposing more teenagers to rationality.

So, thank you all for this great site! I hope I'll be able to contribute.

Comment author: Hul-Gil 30 May 2011 10:56:22PM 2 points [-]

Welcome. Just remember: don't take the posts on LessWrong as gospel, so to speak, just because of their source. Eliezer has posted about this several times, though, so you most probably need no reminding.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 30 May 2011 09:34:27AM *  2 points [-]

For harder tests, the benefit is in not ignoring low-hanging fruit, and training to look for any opportunity to get better reliability, performing cheap checks and selecting more reliable of any alternative sub-steps. On the other hand, ordinary exams are often such that a well-prepared applicant can solve all problems in half the time or less, and then the failure would be not taking advantage of the remaining time to turn "probably about 90% of solutions are correct" into "95% chance the score is perfect".

Comment author: Hul-Gil 30 May 2011 10:37:52PM 0 points [-]

Gotcha. That's much more clear to me - thanks.

Comment author: komponisto 30 May 2011 04:43:51AM *  0 points [-]

I'm just as confused by the lack of instructions.

You should probably have made that clear at the very beginning of the post; when I read it I first assumed you had simply neglected to tell us the instructions.

This test, as I understand it, is the U.S. military "entrance exam"

In that case, I suspect it's probably supposed to be a test of physical intuition -- or more to the point, of whether you're the kind of person who spends enough brain cycles on intuitive physical modeling in order to suspect that's what's being tested.

In which case, A probably does make the most sense, since it seems to represent the most "equilibrium-like" (lowest potential energy) situation, assuming what is being represented is a box with an object tied to it via a string, viewed from the side (not above or below).

Comment author: Hul-Gil 30 May 2011 04:48:26AM *  1 point [-]

You should probably have made that clear at the very beginning of the post; when I read it I first assumed you had simply neglected to tell us the instructions.

Gotcha. I'll edit.

In which case, A probably does make the most sense, since it seems to represent the most "equilibrium-like" situation, assuming what is being represented is a box with an object tied to it via a string, viewed from the side (not above or below).

Really? I don't see that at all. Surely B would be more reasonable, in that case? On A, it'd sort of be hanging off to the side.

Comment author: Hul-Gil 30 May 2011 04:33:30AM 1 point [-]

Why did I get a -1 for this? I didn't make the puzzle. I'm just as confused by the lack of instructions.

This test, as I understand it, is the U.S. military "entrance exam". This may be from a practice version, unless they let you take it online. I'm guessing you're supposed to pick the answer that shows a line going from point A to point B.

In response to A Priori
Comment author: Hul-Gil 30 May 2011 04:30:24AM *  2 points [-]

(More necromancy!)

I thought Occam's Razor was justified by the fact that every new proposition involved necessarily increased the number of ways in which the entire explanation could fail. Then you require evidence for yet another belief, and since you cannot be 100% accurate in any of your propositions, your accuracy continually decreases as well.

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 29 May 2011 09:19:08PM *  4 points [-]

Not going meta for developing reliability of problem-solving took a lot of points from me. I just relied on the magical intuition, which was good enough to solve some hard problems (to figure out solution method, without knowing how it was being figured out), but not good enough to reliably solve those problems without errors.

As a result, when I was applying to college, I was afraid of the regular admission exams which I couldn't reliably ace (because of technical errors I wouldn't notice, even though solution methods were obvious), and instead used the perfect score given to winners of Moscow math and physics olympiads, which required solving some hard problems but not solving all problems without errors. Which is a pretty stupid predicament. It just never occurred to me that production of perfect scores can be seen as an engineering problem, and I don't recall any high school teachers mentioning that (even smart college professor teachers administering cram school sessions).

Comment author: Hul-Gil 30 May 2011 04:20:03AM 0 points [-]

What do you mean by "going meta"?

I feel like the advice in your earlier comment is good for obtaining insight, but I can't see how it would be useful on a test. I haven't taken many tests where I have had enough time to solve each problem in several ways!

I'm eager to learn more if I haven't understood correctly, though.

A puzzle on the ASVAB

4 Hul-Gil 30 May 2011 04:01AM

 I was linked to this on another forum. No instructions were given, apparently - just this picture. What's the deal?

It seems to me the answer is clearly C, not A as the test indicates; and the members in the original thread appear to agree. However, attempted justifications of A have been made, none of which are very convincing to me - mainly because if there are no instructions and an obvious answer, there's not really any benefit for them to reward a different interpretation, which would almost certainly involve arbitrary assumptions regarding the rules they really want you to apply.

 Trick questions on exams seem to rely on failure to pay close attention to instructions, or insufficiently rigorously apply rules; when there are no instructions, what justification would anyone have for not choosing the most obvious interpretation? Any could be right!

What do the geniuses here at MoreRight think?

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