Comment author: Vaniver 05 March 2015 07:49:08PM 0 points [-]

So what mechanism do you suggest Voldemort used, in light of the above quote?

I read "another" as someone besides Quirrell. I don't see how that disagrees with, say, V reading Flamel's mind and then Bellatrix AKing F, or V reading F's mind and then commanding F to kill themself, or so on.

The most obvious interpretation is that V just sent B to kill F, or Owled F a hand grenade, or so on. But I don't see why V would prefer that option, especially given that even in the world where V has F's lore, V would want Dumbledore (at least) to believe that F's lore is gone.

Comment author: Izeinwinter 05 March 2015 08:40:26PM *  0 points [-]

Shorter point: Your argument supposes that Harry - at age 11 - has mental defenses better than Flamel at age >600. Seriously, no. Yes, the resonance, but if Legitimancy was that powerful, he would just have someone else dig through Harry's skull.

Comment author: imuli 05 March 2015 06:08:23PM 1 point [-]

Nicholas Flamel is dead, at least according to Dumbledore. (Or tucked away for later secret extraction?)

Comment author: Izeinwinter 05 March 2015 08:28:15PM 1 point [-]

Yhea, two problems with that: 1: I really don't put it past Dumbledore to just lie about everything to Voldemort, and 2:. Flamel had access to the stunt Voldemort pulled on Hermione for a minimum of 500 years, and potentially more like a thousand. I figure good odds killing Flamel just gets you a rebirth in fire phoenix-style and an annoyed arch-wizard.

Comment author: Vaniver 05 March 2015 06:12:05PM 1 point [-]

I.. also just realized that "Flamel" can't possibly be dead. The rite Voldemort used on Hermione was not one of his own devising, but a piece of lore well known enough to have a usual result. "Flamel" had the stone of permanency for either 600 years, or much longer than that. And has more lore than Voldemort.

Had more lore than Voldemort. Legilimency is fun.

Comment author: Izeinwinter 05 March 2015 07:56:00PM *  0 points [-]

Yhea, that's not a workable approach. Seriously, Flamel is centuries old and has had the key to eternal life for all of that. and the largest hoard of lore on the planet for most of it. Trying to legilimency that mind has the most likely result of you becoming a drooling vegetable. Certainly, its not going to actually work. If it did, it would be point 1 on every single aspiring dark lords to-do list. That's actually my main reason for thinking "Not dead". A lot. Really, just a an absurd number, of people must have already tried this. It doesn't even matter what "It" is. Someone tried that one already. And failed. If Voldemort had attempted it in person? Maaaaybee. A hired hit? Nope.

Comment author: Izeinwinter 05 March 2015 03:14:43PM *  2 points [-]

Okay, Harry is really overdoing it here. It would have been much safer to pretend utter ignorance of everything, or at least to limit his reaction to falling over. The scene as set will cause sufficient theorizing without trying to force a particular narrative.

On a meta level: Getting this scene from a bystander means they are not in the mirror. So that's that.

I.. also just realized that "Flamel" can't possibly be dead. The rite Voldemort used on Hermione was not one of his own devising, but a piece of lore well known enough to have a usual result. "Flamel" had the stone of permanency for either 600 years, or much longer than that. And has more lore than Voldemort.

The best creature to assume the essence of from a defensive standpoint isn't a troll or a unicorn. Tough, heck, if there is no downside to just stacking things, maybe she did. The creature in the potterverse with the most absolute defense is the phoenix. Fiendfire? Firetravel away. AK? Respawn and laugh. So Dumbledore may have seen Flamel die, but that means absolutely nothing.

.. depending how the sacrifice works, this might not even hurt the phoenix you are using! Well, permanently anyway.

Comment author: TobyBartels 04 March 2015 06:02:19AM *  0 points [-]

One obvious problem is that I doubt Salazar would murder students on request, but heck, Voldemort could have set Myrtle up without his consent.

In canon, at least, the Basilisk is all into murdering students, suggesting victims and egging on the Heir. Indeed, it is the Basilisk's murderous mutterings in Parseltongue that make Harry aware of it.

Comment author: Izeinwinter 04 March 2015 03:02:27PM 2 points [-]

.. My personal guess about Canon parsel-tongue is that it creates a mind in the snake you talk to based loosely on your own - Hence the python in the zoo just wanting to escape it's cramped living situation, and thus the Basilisk in hogwarts being all murdery - it's nothing more than a funhouse mirror of Voldemort.

This was never tested, because Canon Harry has brain damage from starvation and various other psychological trauma inhibiting his thinking, and never even tried asking the basilisk to back off.

The HPMOR basillisk cannot possibly bear any resemblance whatsoever to the canon one anyway, Because that thing couldn't teach anyone anything.

Comment author: TobyBartels 03 March 2015 11:25:18PM *  0 points [-]

Wait, are you suggesting that Slytherin's Basilisk is Salazar Slytherin, in Animagus form? (Edit: spelling.)

Comment author: Izeinwinter 04 March 2015 01:32:42AM *  1 point [-]

...I am now!

If you want to extend your life without doing incredibly evil shit, "Adopt long-lived animagus form, shift into it when old, never shift out again" is a fairly straightforward application of magic we know wizarding kind has access to.

One obvious problem is that I doubt Salazar would murder students on request, but heck, Voldemort could have set Myrtle up without his consent.

My original thought was simply that killing the basilisk was just too obvious a problem with the lore deposit, and that for this reason there would be backups. As in "more than one snake, and don't let on to the heirs". That also increases the durability of the chamber against time - it is a line of snakes instead of just one creature, time alone will not slay it.

Comment author: Vaniver 03 March 2015 10:19:30PM *  1 point [-]

this is highly unusual for an obliviation

That's the resonance effect from casting a spell on another Tom Riddle, I think. (Was it also there for the transfiguration? Why not?)

Comment author: Izeinwinter 03 March 2015 10:59:58PM 0 points [-]

That attack wasn't actually magic. Not at the point where he attacked Voldemort. He was literally pulling on a physical thread.

Comment author: Kawoomba 01 March 2015 02:24:55PM *  2 points [-]

1) (Harry tells Voldemort his death could hijack the horcrux network) doesn't seem unlikely at all. Both hints from within the story (the Marauder map) and on the meta level ("Riddles and Answers") suggest an unprecedent congruence of identity, at least in the sense of magical artifacts (the map) being unable to tell the difference.

I did not post it since strictly speaking Harry should keep quiet about it.Losing the challenge of not dying (learned to lose), but increasing his chances of winning the war. Immediately even: Since the new horcrux system enables ghost travel, Harry could just try and overwrite / take possession of Voldemort body. Either it works and he wins, or it doesn't and the magic resonance kills ... well, kills only Voldemort, since Harry at that point would be the undead spirit.

That solution occurred to me as I was reading the challenge, and I was puzzled that on my (admittedly cursory) reading of a bunch of solutions, I did not find any exactly resembling it. Either the approach is deeply flawed and I don't see it, or everyone else is taking this as literary as I did and holding off on proposing it (since it may not be precisely the teacher's password as worded in the challenge), or something else.

Comment author: Izeinwinter 01 March 2015 02:38:16PM 0 points [-]

There is no point in adopting it as a plan because it is what will happen if he does nothing at all. It's a reason to not do certain things- such as point this possibility out, but not in and of itself any kind of plan.

Comment author: Jost 01 March 2015 09:08:29AM 3 points [-]

There’s one problem with transfiguring toxic gases: It is unsatisfying from a story perspective, and it would need to kill instantly —

There’s two problems with transfiguring toxic gases: It is unsatisfying from a story perspective, and it would need to kill instantly (since otherwise a coughing Death Eater might still be able to use non-verbal spells to incapacitate Harry), and it would need to hit all —

There’s three problems with transfiguring toxic gases: It is unsatisfying from a story perspective, and it would need to kill instantly (since otherwise a coughing Death Eater might still be able to use non-verbal spells to incapacitate Harry), and it would need to hit all Death Eaters at exactly the same instant (otherwise one DE could still get in a shot, when he sees other DEs dying.)

Comment author: Izeinwinter 01 March 2015 10:53:43AM *  3 points [-]

He doesn't need to kill them - Thats why I went with "Really bright light". Voldemort ordered them all to keep their eyes on him, so any visual effect will hit every single one of them at light speed.

And he is wearing magically secured glasses. Wait, he may have prepared this as an attack... Welding goggles, mirrored sunglasses.

Oh. For. Swears Loudly

I just thought of the silliest solution ever. I don't want to assign this a probability, except "Low, unless EY really just has to poke fun at the Basilisk brouhaha". He's brought Slytherins Basilisk. He's wearing the fucking thirty foot snake on his face. Or he talked it into teaching him how to become a basilisk Animagus. Basilisk stare through tinted glasses petrify - Which is exactly the kind of attack one would want against Voldemort.

"What do you mean, didn't Voldemort Avadra it"? Firstly: He didn't say he did that in parseltongue. Secondly, that would not work. Salazar not being an idiot.

"All sensible wizards do, if can. Thus, very rare".

Comment author: jkadlubo 01 March 2015 10:10:33AM 1 point [-]

He would tell he can do it, but not necessarily how it works. Of course knowing that problem is solvable facilitates solution, but since we know the solution, we also know it would take time for Voldemort to find and use it.

So it is buffing, but with a time delay. That's why I think it's the simplest solution. Quirrelmort did start reading a book on physics, but is certainly far from understanding it deeply enough to do partial transfiguration.

This move would simply buy Harry time. It won't solve the problem of Voldemort threatening the world, but will keep Harry alive, which is the objective of this quest.

There is tonnes of things Harry could infer and then tell him

OK, then use that to buy Harry's own life. My idea was more about Harry buying his own life than telling about partial transfiguration.

Comment author: Izeinwinter 01 March 2015 10:37:03AM 2 points [-]

Thing is, dying isn't the worst tactical option here.

There is a chance buying the farm will just throw Harry into the horcruxi. Not certain enough to do it deliberately, but enough that any plan you come up with has to be better than the option of

"Do nothing, die, hope to hang out in the horcruxi until Voldemort buys it again, let resonance remove you both from play"

Which is a non-negligible bar to clear. Telling him a trick which might be the power he knows not to buy another minute of breathing doesn't pass muster. Telling him of the possibility doesn't pass muster.

There are very few things which are both true and acceptable to tell Voldemort, simply because any information you give him, he will use against the world. If you give him information he can't use, he will ignore it.

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