Comment author: Larks 17 May 2013 01:17:17PM 11 points [-]

The best answer I know is Rawlsianism.

No! That is not Rawlsianism. Rawls was writing about how to establish principles of justice to regulate the major institutions of society; he was not establishing a decision procedure. I think you mean UDT.

Comment author: Jade 18 May 2013 02:07:35AM *  5 points [-]

elharo was referring to 'veil of ignorance,' a concept like UDT applied by Rawls to policy decision-making.

In response to comment by [deleted] on We Don't Have a Utility Function
Comment author: private_messaging 06 April 2013 10:25:36AM *  4 points [-]

In the above example, attempts to produce a most accurate estimate of the sum do a better job than attempts to produce most complete sum.

In general what you learn from applied mathematics is that plenty of methods that are in some abstract sense more distant from the perfect method have a result closer to the result of the perfect method.

E.g. the perfect method could evaluate every possible argument, sum all of them, and then decide. The approximate method can evaluate a least biased sample of the arguments, sum them, and then decide, whereas the method that tries to match the perfect method the most would sum all available arguments. If you could convince an agent that the latter is 'most rational' (which may be intuitively appealing because it does resemble the perfect method the most) and is what should be done, then in a complex subject where agent does not itself enumerate all arguments, you can feed arguments to that agent, biasing the sum, and extract profit of some kind.

Comment author: Jade 09 April 2013 11:46:14AM 3 points [-]
Comment author: Jade 21 January 2013 05:08:08AM *  0 points [-]

From what I've learned about brains, the left brain is engaged in symbolic thinking about a problem, which engages more logical, methodical problem-solving. For a combination that you won't arrive at through that approach, you have to give your brain, apparently involving activation of the right dorsolateral prefrontal cortex and other right-brain parts, more time to integrate info from stored memory or lower-level processed stimuli or to make novel associations related to the problem. When left prefrontal cortex is engaged in focusing on performing a task, it'll inhibit the processing of info seemingly irrelevant to the task. This is why aha/eureka moments are more likely when you're relaxed, not focused and your mind gets to wander (e.g. getting on bus while on vacation, taking a shower/bath). Studies suggest that more creative or sudden-insight (as opposed to deliberately trying different combinations) problem-solvers have greater right brain activity and lower inhibition of it.

Look up "Aha! moments" in the index of Eric Kandel's book, The Age of Insight, which cites many papers, incl. "Explaining and inducing savant skills: privileged access to lower level, less-processed information". A few of my other references: "Bayes for Schizophrenics: Reasoning in Delusional Disorders", "Creativity tied to mental illness", "Through the Wormhole: Creativity Cap"

Comment author: Jade 18 November 2012 11:04:40AM *  0 points [-]
Comment author: Jade 09 October 2012 06:04:30AM *  1 point [-]

Infants' behaviors predicted by Bayesian models

There's another argument that Bayesian theories of brains are just-so stories where whatever happens is optimal, the response being that Bayesian modelling is not the same as implying that brains are optimal, the counter-response being that "many Bayesian researchers often appear to be make claims regarding optimality". Finally, there's a call for unification between Bayesian and non-Bayesian theories: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21864419

Comment author: [deleted] 09 September 2012 11:48:18PM 2 points [-]

Even if by “Creeps/rapists/PUAs” you meant to point at points along a continuum, and the connotation that said points are close together was unintentional, you got the order wrong, as rapists ought to be at one extreme rather than in the middle.

Comment author: Jade 10 September 2012 09:12:25PM *  -1 points [-]

Why assume I was using a continuum? Is a continuum necessary? Even if we must put them on a continuum, why assume the order you've assumed? We could, for example, base the continuum on how wrong their theories of humans are, in which case, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to lump the individuals into those three categories and place them on the continuum.

Any more excuses or unnecessary assumptions for me to dispel? I have yet to see a better theory or counter-evidence not accounted for by my theory. Instead, I see just-so theories pigeon-holing humans as just "fundamentally" sex-driven or creeps as just "desperate" or "low-status." Now, given what I know about how brains work and assuming some readers' brains here have absorbed evo psy terminology, it's understandable why brains are spouting such overly-narrow views of humans. I took a course on evo psy with Gordon Gallup where he taught a little about our ancestors living in trees and moving onto land, but mostly the course was on mating. Even Eleizer's article on evo psy has a story revolving around modern humans mating.

But one's theory would have to include more than data on mating to be less wrong about humans. It would have to include a theory of fun, for example, to account for how persons could enjoy their lives without sex, like Tesla or Erdos did. Even the fact that you guys enjoy being on LessWrong, which isn't the best activity for getting laid, says something about the inadequacy of some of the stupid theories posited on this thread, which started off being about how to improve "creepy" persons' theories using information from the suggested articles.

Some of you guys have work to do for your brains to develop a theory of everything, with which you may be less likely to form ad hoc, just-so theories and discount data that don't fit your theories.

(Disclosure & "help wanted ad:" My brain developed a theory of everything, which I'm working on sharing with others. I'm calling it the Enlightenment project, b/c I can't simply tell people what the theory is--"Information won’t set you free by itself". We have to help brains develop their own less wrong ToEs. I'm looking for brain-hackers who can help create a wiki, videos, and whatever other materials could be used to help most people. And I have some specific ideas that require a digital graphics artist to become something outside of my head for people to use. If you want to help, message me.)

Comment author: anon895 09 September 2012 03:33:26AM -5 points [-]

"Threatening with violence"? Seriously?

Comment author: Jade 09 September 2012 03:03:44PM *  -7 points [-]

Thank you for being able to not take words too literally.

pjeby, obviously I couldn't possibly know all creeps, rapists & PUAs; so you were correct in your first interpretation that I meant: "some creeps, some rapists, and some PUAs." Give me one example where I've dismissed others' knowledge, rather than their knee-jerk reactions based on wrong interpretations of my words meaning what they couldn't possibly mean. Apparently, there are some readers here who've identified with being a creep or PUA and some wouldn't want them to be associated with rapists, hence your downvoting. But the fact is we're talking about humans, not apples and oranges. (Are you gonna downvote this now because you think I'm "lumping"? What a BS excuse for downvoting.) Fallacious justifications of un-illuminated thoughts & behaviors is a problem we all have to face. I was pointing out specifics of this problem to address this thread, giving abstractions of cases I've known. Instead of offering counter-examples or counterarguments, some have written blunt rejections or simply downvoted. If I am wrong, why can't someone make me less wrong? Instead, what I'm getting here is not unlike how abuse victims get dismissed when they accuse liked persons as abusers. How do I know this? Cuz I was abused and tried to make the truth known and got similar knee-jerk denials. Feeling rational, I think it's appropriate discourse for LW to say: "Fuck you deniers." Now do you get how my talking about ass-kicking was an expression of emotion [specifically, indignation], not an actual threat?

Comment author: wedrifid 08 September 2012 01:01:39PM 17 points [-]

That Readercon example points out an irrationality in the thinking of some creeps/rapists/PUAs

Seriously? Creeps/rapists/PUAs. People kept reading after that introduction?

Comment author: Jade 08 September 2012 11:48:27PM *  -18 points [-]

What do you know about them that makes them like apples and oranges in your mind? If you can't give me a reason for why they're not comparable in any way, I'm gonna have to give your a kick in the ass for being so dismissive of what another person knows.

Comment author: Nornagest 08 September 2012 03:12:20AM *  16 points [-]

I'm not sure I'm entirely comfortable with this line of thinking. Sexuality isn't a physical need in the sense that, say, water is a physical need, but it is a pretty fundamental drive. It certainly doesn't morally oblige any particular person to fulfill it for you (analogously, the human need for companionship doesn't oblige random strangers to accept overtures of friendship), but it's sufficiently potent that I'd be cautious about casually demoting it below other social considerations, let alone suggesting sexual asceticism as a viable solution in the average case; that seems like an easy way to come up with eudaemonically suboptimal prescriptions.

Nice Guy (tm) psychology is something else again. I'm not sure how much of the popular view of it is anywhere near accurate, but in isolation I'd hesitate to take it as suggesting anything more than one particular pathology of sexual politics and maybe some interesting facts about the surrounding culture.

Comment author: Jade 08 September 2012 04:47:03AM *  -1 points [-]

We don't have to "casually demote" anything. Like Fox News says, "we report -- you decide."

Generally, "need" is used to refer to something perceived to be necessary in an optimization process. There are cases where a human doesn't need companionship, let alone sex (see recluses or transcendentalists' recommendations that persons isolate themselves from society for a while to clear their heads of irrationalities).

If "the average case" involves little luminosity of sexuality and lots of sexualization of beings, then of course sexual abstinence wouldn't be likely. Rape occurs in epidemic proportions in such places where people are also demoralized or decommissioned from doing much good work, like on reservations.

Nice Guy and Nice Gal are idealized gender roles for an optimal society. Some oppose gender roles to the extent that they limit persons from doing good, esp. when they make one gender subservient to the other or make a person of one gender subservient to another person of another gender (like the promulgated view that wife should serve husband). A person or AI caring only about one person or half the human population would not be optimal.

Comment author: hg00 07 September 2012 10:47:54PM *  6 points [-]

Yep. I'm arguing that creepy/misogynistic behavior may be an adaptation that fires when a man is feeling desperate.

It's weird because since thinking of this yesterday, I've noticed that it has a ton of explanatory power regarding my own feelings and behavior. And it actually offers a concrete solution to the problem of feeling creepy: hang out with more women. But I'm getting voted down both here and on reddit. I guess maybe I'm generalizing from myself improperly, and lack of social awarenesss is actually a much larger problem?

Hanging out with more women could also be a solution to lack of social awareness, by the way. In my experience, I naturally tend to start making friends with some of them, and in conversations I learn a lot more about how they think and feel.

Comment author: Jade 08 September 2012 02:46:21AM *  2 points [-]

Your theory fails to account for cases of creepiness among men surrounded by their targets (women, children, men, whatever). See my explanation.

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