The LessWrong wiki contains a biased and offensive entry on group selection.  I edited the wiki page, to append some points representing an opposing view at the end.  Eliezer removed my points, leaving only a link at the end.  He said he thought my points were wrong, but would not say which points he thought were wrong, or why he thought they were wrong.

Is it reasonable for me to restore my changes over Eliezer's edit, since he is unwilling to give reasons for his edit?  What sort of rights or privileges does Eliezer have over LW or LW wiki content?

(Please try not to turn this into a discussion of group selection.)

ADDED:  Please go meta, folks.  I am not trying to argue about this specific Wiki article.  I am not asking for redress.  Specifics about this wiki article are irrelevant.  I am asking whether this is still a benevolent dictatorship.

The relevant questions are not what the appropriate form of debate is, or anything about this wiki article.  The relevant questions are:

• Who owns the domain?
• Who created the Wiki?
• Who owns the code?
• Who pays for the servers?
• If someone is in charge, what rights do they reserve for themselves?
• At what point does the ratio of community contributions to Eliezer's contributions mean we have the right to claim some ownership?

The Wiki main page says, "The wiki about rationality that anyone who is logged in can edit".  Apparently that is a lie.  If I do not have as much right as Eliezer does to write a wiki post, I want that point explicitly spelled out.

In an interview, Angel Harris, author of Kids Don't Want to Fail: Oppositional Culture and the Black-White Achievement Gap, who'd been in the bottom tenth of the students in high school, describes the moment in college when a professor talked about listing a child's behaviors and letting a listener draw their own conclusions, rather than just calling the child bad-- this level of empiricism was a revelation to Harris and permanently changed the way he thought. This starts about 3 minutes into the recording and only runs for about five minutes.

His general point is that a lot of the gap between black and white students can be explained by teachers giving up on the black students-- he's got studies-- and that a lot of what looks like oppositional behavior is actually frustration from students who are being expected to learn things that they weren't given the prior education to understand.

I'd say his more general point is to have more respect for the idea that people are showing ordinary human reactions to their situations rather than there being something weird about them explaining what they're doing.

Someone self immolates and explicitly states it is a form of political protest in Megdad. What a crazy regime! 
Someone self immolates and explicitly states it is a form of political protest in Hometown. What a crazy person!

Edit: What -5 already? What is giving an example of how people never take the outside view of their own society that bad a topic for the discussion section? Also disclaimer both Hometown State and Megdadistan Republic are fictional countries and no actual examples where given, to avoid mind killers.

2nd Edit: Wow I really need to spell this out? The media of Hometown are more likley to treat an immolation in Megdad as due to a legitimate grievance worthy of attention and down play any mental health problems or details that might paint the person in an unflattering light compared to someone who self-immolates in Hometown. And I think this effect is mostly not due to government enforced censorship or pressure.

 

Noble act of defiant self-sacrifice is far. Suicidal crazies are near.

 

The only way to get good coverage to acheive social change is to count on foreign media to paint a kind picture of you. And supposing your people care about what the media of Megdad say about your country.

3rd Edit: -15 Pretty clear that I'm wrong .

Here's why I'm not going to give money to the SIAI any time soon.

Let's suppose that Friendly AI is possible. In other words, it's possible that a small subset of humans can make a superhuman AI which uses something like Coherent Extrapolated Volition to increase the happiness of humans in general (without resorting to skeevy hacks like releasing an orgasm virus).

Now, the extrapolated volition of all humans is probably a tricky thing to determine. I don't want to get sidetracked into writing about my relationship history, but sometimes I feel like it's hard to extrapolate the volition of one human.

If it's possible to make a Friendly superhuman AI that optimises CEV, then it's surely way easier to make an unFriendly superhuman AI that optimises a much simpler variable, like the share price of IBM.

Long before a Friendly AI is developed, some research team is going to be in a position to deploy an unFriendly AI that tries to maximise the personal wealth of the researchers, or the share price of the corporation that employs them, or pursues some other goal that the rest of humanity might not like.

And who's going to stop that happening? If the executives of Corporation X are in a position to unleash an AI with a monomaniacal dedication to maximising the Corp's shareholder value, it's probably illegal for them not to do just that.

If you genuinely believe that superhuman AI is possible, it seems to me that, as well as sponsoring efforts to design Friendly AI, you need to (a) lobby against AI research by any groups who aren't 100% committed to Friendly AI (pay off reactionary politicians so AI regulation becomes a campaign issue, etc.) (b) assassinate any researchers who look like they're on track to deploying an unFriendly AI, then destroy their labs and backups.

But SIAI seems to be fixated on design at the expense of the other, equally important priorities. I'm not saying I expect SIAI to pursue illegal goals openly, but there is such a thing as a false-flag operation.

While Michelle Bachmann isn't talking about how AI research is a threat to the US constitution, and Ben Goertzel remains free and alive, I can't take the SIAI seriously.

Venkatesh Rao (who is amazing because he literally constantly challenges our definitions of everything):

http://www.quora.com/Venkatesh-Rao/Quora-Portfolio-Year-1

http://www.quora.com/Venkatesh-Rao

http://www.ribbonfarm.com/be-slightly-evil/

http://www.ribbonfarm.com

Gregory Rader:

http://www.quora.com/Gregory-Rader

http://onthespiral.com/

Daniel Lemire:

http://www.quora.com/Daniel-Lemire and http://lemire.me/blog/ are also super-super-super interesting

==

I tried doing google searches of site:lesswrong.com + their names (or websites), but ended up with little. I'd like to see what LessWrong thinks of Rao in particular. I have NEVER seen posts that were as amazingly insightful as his. It's worth it just to sacrifice a day just to see all his amazing posts. The others were also amazing and really make you think about everything.

==

E.g. with Rao, you have

My favorites: 

http://www.quora.com/What-are-the-benefits-to-obtaining-a-PhD-in-the-field-of-Education/answer/Venkatesh-Rao?srid=0WH

http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2010/05/19/intellectual-gluttony/

http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2011/04/07/extroverts-introverts-aspies-and-codies

http://www.quora.com/What-careers-or-industries-are-the-most-meritocratic/answer/Venkatesh-Rao?srid=0WH

http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2008/09/11/how-to-measure-information-work

http://www.quora.com/What-are-some-tips-for-advanced-writers/answer/Venkatesh-Rao

http://www.quora.com/Children/Why-do-some-humans-not-want-children/answer/Venkatesh-Rao

http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-way-to-motivate-oneself-to-finish-a-PhD/answer/Venkatesh-Rao

http://www.quora.com/History/What-is-the-most-important-human-decision-ever-made/answer/Venkatesh-Rao

http://www.quora.com/Is-the-following-follower-model-the-new-standard-of-social-connection/answer/Venkatesh-Rao

http://www.quora.com/What-discipline-specific-principles-help-reframe-activities-so-as-to-provide-useful-insights-and-or-improvement

1. "Premature optimization is the root of all evil" -- Knuth, computer science
2. Never design a law with the worst case in mind -- law/legislation

Rader:

http://onthespiral.com/stop-wasting-time-and-effort-developing-fragile-capabilities

http://onthespiral.com/unifying-value-universe

http://onthespiral.com/principles-disruptive-learning-environments

Lemire:

http://lemire.me/blog/archives/2010/08/16/working-long-hours-is-stupid

http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2010/02/08/trading-latency-for-quality-in-research

http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2009/09/14/how-things-change-cheaters-are-innovators

http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/08/19/the-secret-to-intellectual-productivity/

http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2010/01/13/the-fundamental-properties-of-computing/

http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2007/12/05/formal-definitions-are-less-useful-than-you-think/

http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2007/11/19/directed-research-is-useless/

http://lemire.me/blog/archives/2006/08/09/big-schools-are-not-longer-giving-researchers-an-edge/

http://lemire.me/blog/archives/2011/06/23/probabilities-are-unnecessary-mathematical-artifacts

http://lemire.me/blog/archives/2011/06/14/the-language-interpreters-are-the-new-machines

http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2009/08/01/why-i-hardly-ever-blog-about-my-ongoing-research/

http://lemire.me/blog/archives/2011/06/08/is-wikipedia-anti-intellectual

http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2008/06/05/why-pure-theory-is-wasteful

http://lemire.me/blog/archives/2011/06/06/why-i-still-program

Good now that that's out of the way, let me say I really like the new header, but replacing things like "deleted", "report" ect. with pictogram's is unnecessary in my opinion.

The new nesting seems less aesthetically pleasing, though I think that is outweighed by it being easier to follow so that's a good change.

Thumbs up and thumbs down however seems to me, to have a different implied meaning compared to up vote and down vote. Is this a bug or a feature?

Edit: One month later the pictograms seem a much better idea than they where at first.

I left myself a cryptic note for trying some lifestyle habit a few weeks ago, and can no longer recall its meaning. Here's the note in its entirety:

> 1-2pm

Any suggestions for what's best done at 1-2pm? I feel like (70%) it has something to do with diet or exercise (but not napping). I'm half hoping to hear a more useful idea than the one I forgot, which wasn't spectacular enough for me to remember. I already searched web, mail, and my RSS.

atucker wants to save the world.
ciphergoth wants to save the world.
Dorikka wants to save the world.
Eliezer_Yudkowsky wants to save the world.
I want to save the world.
Kaj_Sotala wants to save the world.
lincolnquirk wants to save the world.
Louie wants to save the world.
paulfchristiano wants to save the world.
Psy-Kosh wants to save the world.

Clearly the list I've given is incomplete. I imagine most members of the Singularity Institute belong here; otherwise their motives are pretty baffling. But equally clearly, the list will not include everyone.

What's my point? My point is that these people should be cooperating. But we can't cooperate unless we know who we are. If you feel your name belongs on this list then add a top-level comment to this thread, and feel free to add any information about what this means to you personally or what plans you have. Or it's enough just to say, "I want to save the world".

This time, no-one's signing up for anything. I'm just doing this to let you know that you're not alone. But maybe some of us can find somewhere to talk that's a little quieter.

Regular cell phones are so useful and have become so cheap that they have quickly become nearly a human universal. Smartphones are steadily getting cheaper and more common, and will soon be universal, even in very poor areas. The features present in this generation of phones will have major effects on the course of future events, just as the features of previous generations did. For example, the inclusion of cameras in cell phones has made many crimes and abuses of power harder to get away with. But there is a feature missing, an extremely important feature.

Consumer cell phones cannot send messages to satellites, not even emergency text messages, not even in a disaster area which major powers have decided to point all their antennas at, not even if you're willing to spend your whole battery on transmit power.

This is unacceptable. This is the difference between life and death in a wide variety of disaster scenarios, some of which are definitely going to happen. This is the difference between rescuers following GPS coordinates, and rescuers searching blindly. This is the difference between rescuers that leave immediately and rescuers that wait for a missing person report. This could be the difference between a genocide going unreported, and being deterred. Sending short messages from cell phones to satellites is technically feasible, although will require of coordination between cell phone makers and satellite owners and it may require launching new hardware into orbit. I do not believe that it would increase the cost of the phones themselves by much. This should work worldwide, and it should also be part of the United States FCC's Enhanced 911 requirements.

Many lives depend on this getting done. This affects existential risk. Who has the connections to make it happen?

I was browsing my RSS feed, as one does, and came across a New York Times article, "A Village With the Numbers, Not the Image, of the Poorest Place", about the Satmar Hasidic Jews of Kiryas Joel (NY).

Their interest lies in their extraordinarily high birthrate & population growth, and their poverty - which are connected. From the article:

"...officially, at least, none of the nation’s 3,700 villages, towns or cities with more than 10,000 people has a higher proportion of its population living in poverty than Kiryas Joel, N.Y., a community of mostly garden apartments and town houses 50 miles northwest of New York City in suburban Orange County.

About 70 percent of the village’s 21,000 residents live in households whose income falls below the federal poverty threshold, according to the Census Bureau. Median family income ($17,929) and per capita income ($4,494) rank lower than any other comparable place in the country. Nearly half of the village’s households reported less than $15,000 in annual income. About half of the residents receive food stamps, and one-third receive Medicaid benefits and rely on federal vouchers to help pay their housing costs.

Kiryas Joel’s unlikely ranking results largely from religious and cultural factors. Ultra-Orthodox Satmar Hasidic Jews predominate in the village; many of them moved there from Williamsburg, Brooklyn, beginning in the 1970s to accommodate a population that was growing geometrically. Women marry young, remain in the village to raise their families and, according to religious strictures, do not use birth control. As a result, the median age (under 12) is the lowest in the country and the household size (nearly six) is the highest. Mothers rarely work outside the home while their children are young. Most residents, raised as Yiddish speakers, do not speak much English. And most men devote themselves to Torah and Talmud studies rather than academic training — only 39 percent of the residents are high school graduates, and less than 5 percent have a bachelor’s degree. Several hundred adults study full time at religious institutions.

...Because the community typically votes as a bloc, it wields disproportionate political influence, which enables it to meet those challenges creatively. A luxurious 60-bed postnatal maternal care center was built with $10 million in state and federal grants. Mothers can recuperate there for two weeks away from their large families. Rates, which begin at $120 a day, are not covered by Medicaid, although, Mr. Szegedin said, poorer women are typically subsidized by wealthier ones.

...The village does aggressively pursue economic opportunities. A kosher poultry slaughterhouse, which processes 40,000 chickens a day, is community owned and considered a nonprofit organization. A bakery that produces 800 pounds of matzo daily is owned by one of the village’s synagogues.

Most children attend religious schools, but transportation and textbooks are publicly financed. Several hundred handicapped students are educated by the village’s own public school district, which, because virtually all the students are poor and disabled, is eligible for sizable state and federal government grants.

... Still, poverty is largely invisible in the village. Parking lots are full, but strollers and tricycles seem to outnumber cars. A jeweler shares a storefront with a check-cashing office. To avoid stigmatizing poorer young couples or instilling guilt in parents, the chief rabbi recently decreed that diamond rings were not acceptable as engagement gifts and that one-man bands would suffice at weddings. Many residents who were approached by a reporter said they did not want to talk about their finances.

...Are as many as 7 in 10 Kiryas Joel residents really poor? “It is, in a sense, a statistical anomaly,” Professor Helmreich said. “They are clearly not wealthy, and they do have a lot of children. They spend whatever discretionary income they have on clothing, food and baby carriages. They don’t belong to country clubs or go to movies or go on trips to Aruba.

...David Jolly, the social services commissioner for Orange County, also said that while the number of people receiving benefits seemed disproportionately high, the number of caseloads — a family considered as a unit — was much less aberrant. A family of eight who reports as much as $48,156 in income is still eligible for food stamps, although the threshold for cash assistance ($37,010), which relatively few village residents receive, is lower....“You also have no drug-treatment programs, no juvenile delinquency program, we’re not clogging the court system with criminal cases, you’re not running programs for AIDS or teen pregnancy,” he [Mr. Szegedin, the village administrator] said. “I haven’t run the numbers, but I think it’s a wash.”

From Wikipedia:

The land for Kiryas Joel was purchased in 1977, and fourteen Satmar families settled there. By 2006, there were over 3,000...In 1990, there were 7,400 people in Kiryas Joel; in 2000, 13,100, nearly doubling the population. In 2005, the population had risen to 18,300, a rate of growth suggesting it will double again in the ten years between 2000 and 2010.

Robin Hanson has argued that uploaded/emulated minds will establish a new Malthusian/Darwinian equilibrium in "IF UPLOADS COME FIRST: The crack of a future dawn" - an equilibrium in comparison to which our own economy will look like a delusive dreamtime of impossibly unfit and libertine behavior. The demographic transition will not last forever. But despite our own distaste for countless lives living at near-subsistence rather than our own extreme per-capita wealth (see the Repugnant Conclusion), those many lives will be happy ones (even amidst disaster).

So. Are the inhabitants of Kiryas Joel unhappy?