Comment author: listic 21 April 2014 12:42:27PM 1 point [-]

I would like to learn drawing.

I would like to be able to have fun expressing myself via art. How long does it takes to learn to draw from zero to good enough not to be embarrassed of oneself?

What techniques are useful? Is there any sense in e.g. Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain?

Comment author: JayDee 22 April 2014 04:26:16AM 1 point [-]

There's an (unfinished) set of posts about rationality and drawing written by Raemon, Drawing LessWrong p2 p3 p4 p5 that might answer your questions (in the articles or comments.)

Comment author: JayDee 15 April 2014 07:54:22AM 1 point [-]

Hmm, I'm not entirely sure. I can find old usenet comments - like my nethack YAFAP - from 2005 to 2008, but as far I can tell they were all made with Google Groups. I do vaguely recall using a newsreader, maybe trying to set up Thunderbird? It certainly would have been in character, "real men use newsreaders, and never top-post" kind of thing was a big part of the appeal. Possibly I could only get read-only access through whatever free provider I found.

At the time, the communities discussing interactive fiction and roguelike games were still centered on usenet (rec.arts.int-fiction and rec.games.roguelikes.* respectively) although iirc half the conversations were on the need to move on, to web forums or whatnot.

Comment author: JayDee 15 April 2014 07:56:55AM 0 points [-]

LessWrong tends to remind me more of usenet. Probably just due to the threaded comments.

I'd happily read this site with a newsreader.

Comment author: gwern 13 April 2014 03:01:23AM *  1 point [-]

Have LWers ever used Usenet? By that, I mean: connected to a NNTP server (not Google Groups) with a newsreader to read discussions and perhaps comment (not solely download movies & files).

Your age is:

I am curious about the age-distribution of Usenet use: I get the feeling that there is a very sharp fall in Usenet age such that all nerds who grew up in the '70s-'80s used Usenet, but nerd teens in the mid-'90s to now have zero usage of it except for a rare few who know it as a better BitTorrent.

Submitting...

Comment author: JayDee 15 April 2014 07:54:22AM 1 point [-]

Hmm, I'm not entirely sure. I can find old usenet comments - like my nethack YAFAP - from 2005 to 2008, but as far I can tell they were all made with Google Groups. I do vaguely recall using a newsreader, maybe trying to set up Thunderbird? It certainly would have been in character, "real men use newsreaders, and never top-post" kind of thing was a big part of the appeal. Possibly I could only get read-only access through whatever free provider I found.

At the time, the communities discussing interactive fiction and roguelike games were still centered on usenet (rec.arts.int-fiction and rec.games.roguelikes.* respectively) although iirc half the conversations were on the need to move on, to web forums or whatnot.

Comment author: roystgnr 12 March 2014 02:15:50PM 1 point [-]

Fun, and practice, and there's always someone on github who could use help with their open source thing.

Source: myself, and everyone else on github who could use help with our open source things. ;-)

Comment author: JayDee 13 March 2014 11:40:14AM 2 points [-]

there's always someone on github who could use help with their open source thing.

Any chance you could point me at one or two?

Background: I enjoy coding, but run into problems with high-level motivation. Point me at something to do, I'll do it (and likely enjoy myself) but when it comes to doing the pointing myself I draw a blank. Most of the code I've written in the last year has come from frustration with inadequate tools at work, which is productive for learning but not for sharing.

I'm currently most proficient with Python, have dabbled in C++, and commit to spending an hour each with the first two open source things anyone points me at. (2x 25 minute pomodoros, this weekend.)

Comment author: ChristianKl 06 January 2014 01:28:33AM *  1 point [-]

It's not obvious that attention is being diverted to obscuring information.

It makes it harder for me to build a mental image of the situation that he's describing. If it's harder than I will put less attention on the situation.

Here it's a subtle choice. But it points to a pattern. A common general piece of advice on telling stories which draw listeners attention is to provide a lot of adjectives to make it more easy for the audience to picture what you are describing.

The kind that most people don't put to practice when they hear it. Instead of describing the principle abstractly, I pointed to an example.

It takes effort to provide listeners with details. It's still one of the pure white hat strategies to getting peoples attention when you speak.

As far as the information being relevant, when I give someone recommendation about testosterone, the gender of the person I'm interacting with matters.

I have a good idea that more testosterone in males will help with given attention. I'm less certain, that trying to increase testosterone is a good strategy for females.

Comment author: JayDee 06 January 2014 02:38:08AM -1 points [-]

In this case, it's deliberately non-gendered language. Lower-effort, as kalium says. In my case because I cultivated the habit, in years past.

As both you and Douglas_Knight point out, there are tradeoffs involved. In the case of not gendering pronouns I expect I’ll continue thinking it worthwhile.

But it’s a helpful thing to consider- I’ll bet there are other habits I’ve developed that I’ve never considered if it’s worth the costs. Especially when I contrast my teenaged self – “I don’t care what anyone thinks of me” + “I’ll choose my words for my own aesthetical pleasure” – with the me of today – who does care, and on balance values communication higher than self-expression. I doubt my conversational habits have shifted as far as my preferences have.

I’m also interested by what you say about details. It’s not something I’d’ve thought of, worrying I tend more to being too verbose. But I like to write, and concrete detail / description is the area I’d consider my weakest there. I can think of some ways to practice this (started playing tabletop RPGs recently, for one.)

Comment author: ChristianKl 04 January 2014 06:49:21PM 2 points [-]

There are a variety of plausible explanation.

The first would be that it's just an issue of perception. There a plenty of people with low self esteem who hold inaccurate beliefs about how much attention other people pay to them.

A second would be generally proxies for low testosterone. If you have a louder and deeper voice people are more likely to listen to you. There are also body language changes and various other things that are hard to fake.

Comment author: JayDee 05 January 2014 06:15:47AM -1 points [-]

Thanks. Perception I thought was the main contribution in the past. But after a recent party my partner commented to me about people speaking over me.

And testosterone, that makes me curious. I wonder if I can get levels of that tested without too much hassle...

Comment author: hyporational 04 January 2014 10:18:41PM *  3 points [-]

You're really not giving enough specific information. There are countless reasons why that might happen so any advice you take here could lead to erratic behavior.

In addition to what other people said, this sounds like you might be too verbose or bad at gauging which topics interest other people and to what extent. They might look at the other person because they wish them to interrupt you and move on.

Comment author: JayDee 05 January 2014 06:09:36AM 0 points [-]

Fair enough. At this stage I'm curious as to which specifics I should be looking at. Or what kinds of things are key (to speaker priority in groups of 5-10).

The various elements of body language given, and your notes on content (I can be too verbose, for sure) have given me what I need to go on for now.

Comment author: Calvin 04 January 2014 01:31:45AM *  5 points [-]

I can't really offer anything more than a personal anecdotes, but here is what I usually do for when I try to grab attention of a group of my peers:

  • If you are talking to several people gathered in circle, and it is my turn to say something important, I make a small step forward so that I physically place myself in the center of the group.
  • When I am speaking, I try to mantain eye contact with all people gathered around, If I focus too much only on the person I am speaking to, everyone else turns their attention towards them as well.
  • I rarely do it myself, as I suppose it is a technique more tailored for public speeches, but conservative use of hand gestures to signify what you are talking about, probably won't hurt.
  • I probably sound like a self absorbed jerk writing this, but if I want the attention to focus on myself, and not my interlocutor I often use "me" language. Compare and contrast ["What you say about vegans is true, but you may conisder..." - now everybody looks at the person who said something about vegans] ["I think that I agree with what was said about vegans, but I also think..." - now everybody looks at me as I explain my position].

But those are all just little little tricks, when the surest way of attracting attention of the audience is simply to have something important and interesting to say.

Comment author: JayDee 05 January 2014 05:58:23AM *  0 points [-]

Thanks. These are things I've learnt or tried learning in the past. I'd guess there are good odds that I'm reverting to past (shyer) behaviors in some situations.

I'll make an effort to be aware of my body language and focus next time.

Comment author: JayDee 03 January 2014 08:32:22PM 8 points [-]

Question about a low-level social thing:

I've noticed that I have low priority in at mid-large group conversations. What I mean is that in situations where I'm one of two people talking, I'm (generally) the one who stops and the attention of the "audience" (people-who-aren't-speaking) is predominantly on the other person even before I stop speaking.

This used to cause me considerable distress, but no longer. I've accepted it as a fact of the social universe. But I'm still curious and would like to change it, if possible.

I suspect that this is something that varies by social group, and more strongly suspect that some behavior of mine is key.

I'm interested in (being pointed to) discussion of this type of thing, especially if it contains actionable advice.

Comment author: oliverbeatson 02 January 2014 05:37:06PM 1 point [-]

I watched 'Oz the Great and Powerful'. I really liked the pro-innovation / science-inventory / mind-over-might themes.

Comment author: JayDee 03 January 2014 08:16:40PM 1 point [-]

Looking back, so did I.

When I saw the film I enjoyed it for being very pretty. And was pleasantly surprised (and surprised by my surprise) at how the plot led toward the original film.

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