Comment author: Will_Newsome 10 May 2013 10:30:46PM 12 points [-]

Let your body occupy little space in order to feel less confident and signal lack of status, thus compensating for typical but unfortunate human tendencies to think much more highly of their opinions than is actually justifiable and to prop up ubiquitous and costly signaling games. Harness the power of negative thinking!

Comment author: Jubilee 15 May 2013 04:41:27AM *  2 points [-]

Of course, if you've gone through the trouble of thinking it through that far, you probably don't want to decrease your confidence too much, or you may wind up deferring to those expansive, confident fools who didn't think it through at all :P

Comment author: Multiheaded 08 July 2011 03:49:57PM *  -2 points [-]

As noted above, 50 years of torture WITHOUT ANY CONSEQUENCES is a fucking useless, contradictory definition that's part of an overzealous effort to confuse intuition. If, say, the victim's mental state was carefully patched to what it once used to be, 5 years after the experience, so that the enormous utility tax of the experience would disappear, then it wouldn't be so contradictory, and Eliezer would still make his point (which I vaguely agree with, although this doesn't imply agreement with this particular decision).

Or, he could call it "purgatory", or "missing the world's greatest orgy due to lethargic sleep", or whatever. If torture is a loaded definition, you switch to a different definition to describe a different thing, not complain about LW's collective blindness.

Comment author: Jubilee 09 May 2013 09:48:11PM 1 point [-]

I'm not sure why this comment was at -1; despite the angry tone, it makes some interesting points. Both the "mental patch" and the "missed orgy" arguments helped me overcome my gut reaction and think more objectively about the situation.

While reading through this and the other "speck vs torture" threads, many of the important ideas were just clarifications or modifications of the initial problem: for example, replacing "dust speck" (which rounds to 0 in my head, even if it shouldn't) with "toe stub" or "face punch", and suddenly the utilitarian answer becomes much more intuitive for me. Same for replacing "torture" with "missed a 50-year party". I'm still pretty sure if faced with the choice as originally stated, I would choose specks, but at least I'd feel morally bad about it :P

Comment author: Qiaochu_Yuan 29 April 2013 06:22:32PM *  1 point [-]

Yes, I think that's a nice selection of reasons. But I also think that when most people discuss political questions they aren't doing it to become better-informed voters. A strategy optimized for better voting wouldn't look like constantly discussing political questions, it would look like maybe setting aside a few weeks before election day to do a lot of research. A strategy optimized for influencing the votes of others would look like a grassroots campaign or something.

Comment author: Jubilee 30 April 2013 03:37:01AM 1 point [-]

A grassroots campaign sounds like a significant expenditure of effort compared to voting and casual conversation about the issues. Perhaps maximizing our influence on the votes of others is not the only consideration, and voting hits a sweet spot which returns acceptable values for "(potentially) having an effect", "not too time consuming", and "improves my self-image".

You're right about setting aside some time for research, though; it'd be nice if we maximized potential effect in the correct direction :P

In response to Ethics Notes
Comment author: Multiheaded 01 January 2012 12:17:33AM 1 point [-]

But do you want the Soviet Union to have a written, explicit policy that says... "Anyone who ignores orders in a nuclear war scenario, who is later vindicated by events, will be rewarded and promoted"?

I don't see the catch, by the way. Could someone please explain? Unless "vindicated by events" includes "USSR having dominion over a blasted wasteland", this sounds good.

In response to comment by Multiheaded on Ethics Notes
Comment author: Jubilee 06 April 2013 12:14:33PM 1 point [-]

Because if you're considering disobeying orders, it is presumably because you think you WILL be vindicated by events (regardless of the actual likelihood of that transpiring). Therefore, punishing only people who turn out to be wrong fails to sufficiently discourage anybody who actually should be discouraged :P