Comment author: RobinZ 12 March 2010 01:34:39AM 1 point [-]

Am I from Illinois? No, actually - Maryland. Checking the data, it seems I'm in a very strange statistical anomaly: 82% in 6 years. At a state university.

No wonder my impressions were skewed.

Comment author: Karl_Smith 12 March 2010 05:04:02PM 1 point [-]

You are at the state flagship. 82% at College Park is roughly equal to Urbana-Champaign's 80%. The point is that top schools pick students who can get through and/or do a better job of getting students through.

Comment author: timtyler 12 March 2010 09:48:35AM 0 points [-]

Re: "Already we have computer programs which can re-write existing to programs to run faster. These programs can also re-write themselves to run faster. However, they cannot rewrite themselves to become better at re-writing themselves faster."

You mean that they can't do that alone? Refactoring programs help speed up their own development, and make it easier and faster to make improvements in a set of programs that often includes their own source code.

It's not total automation - but partial automation is still very significant progress.

Comment author: Karl_Smith 12 March 2010 04:52:18PM 0 points [-]

Tim,

Thanks, input like this helps me try to think about the economic issues involved.

Can you talk a little about the depth of recursion already possible. How much assistance are these refactoring programs providing? Can the results the be used to speed up other programs or does can it only improve its own development, etc?

Comment author: Karl_Smith 11 March 2010 06:40:19PM 1 point [-]

I'd appreciate some feedback on a brain dump I did on economics and technology. Nothing revolutionary here. Just want people with more experience on the tech side to check my thinking.

Thanks in advance

http://modeledbehavior.com/2010/03/11/the-economics-of-really-big-ideas/

Comment author: Karl_Smith 11 March 2010 05:15:01PM 1 point [-]

I have a 2000+ word brain dump on economics and technology that I'd appreciate feedback on. What would be the protocol. Should I link to it? Copy it into a comment? Start a top level article about it?

I am not promising any deep insights here, just my own synthesis of some big ideas that are out there.

In response to Priors and Surprise
Comment author: Karl_Smith 03 March 2010 06:52:36PM 5 points [-]

Perhaps I am missing something but it seems to me that a world in which Godzilla was common knowledge would have a completely different history of biology. For one thing it's hard to imagine that explaing Godzillia would not be a major goal of philosophers and scientists since the earliest days.

I imagine one of the basic questions would be whether Godzillia was a beast or a god and answering this would be a high priority. What does Godzillia want? Where did he come from? Has he always existed? Are there more? Do they mate?

These seem like really big deal questions when confronted by a sea monster which occasionally destroys towns.

Comment author: MichaelVassar 03 March 2010 06:11:51AM 5 points [-]

I'm sure some people understand more than Keynes, both today and in his time, but can you name them? The understanding of the best unrecognized synthesizing geniuses of both today and Keynes' day aren't available. If you think that the most famous contemporary macro people know more than Keynes I won't laugh, just observe that they are probably using that knowledge to make hedge fund managers rich, not sharing it with you.

Macro-economists are rightly subject to the criticism "if your so smart, why aren't you rich".

Comment author: Karl_Smith 03 March 2010 06:20:12PM *  4 points [-]

So the easy answers might be:

Ben Bernanke

Mark Gertler

Micheal Wooford

Greg Mankiw

Its not clear to me why macro-economists are rightly subject to such criticism. To me its like asking a mathematician, "If you're so good at logical reasoning why didn't you create the next killer app"

Understanding how the economy works and applying that knowledge to a particular task are completely different.

Comment author: TrevinPeterson 02 March 2010 11:52:59PM *  1 point [-]

Rediscovering is not as prestigious as discovering, because it is not as difficult and does not signal intellectual greatness.

There is a difference between rediscovering and old idea, and adapting an old idea to a new situation. Simply rediscovering an old idea does not grant much prestige. Austrians are constantly coming across Hayek quotes and parading them around as definitive solutions to current problems. The problem is that these ideas are every bit as untestable as they were on the day Hayek wrote them. A confirmation bias leads Austrians to see them as Truth, while Keysians remain skeptical.

When old ideas are adapted into a testable form they endow a great deal of prestige. There are all sorts of anecdotes about this happening, such as Henry Ford taking the idea of an assembly line from Oldsmobile and mixing it with his observations from a meat factory, to create the moving assembly line. The difference is that this is a testable idea that creates immediate results.

Comment author: Karl_Smith 03 March 2010 03:13:04AM 0 points [-]

So clearly adapting the new idea is useful.

However, it may also be the case that there is an old idea which if re-examined will be seen to be useful in and of itself.

The problem with the Austrians is that their ideas are being considered and they are being rejected. See Byran Caplan's Why I am Not an Austrian Economist. (link seems not to be working)

Comment author: Karl_Smith 02 March 2010 08:54:24PM 4 points [-]

I think this post overstates the case a bit. My general impression is that the scientific method "wins" even in economics and that later works are better than earlier works.

Now it might be true that the average macro-economist of today understands less than Keynes did but I'd be hard pressed to say that the best don't understand more. Moreover, there are really great distillers. In macro for example, Hicks distilled Keynes into something that I would consider more useful that the original.

Nonetheless, I think it is correct that someone should be reading the originals. If not there is the propensity for a particular distiller to miss an important insight and then for everyone else to go one missing it.

What this says to me is that there should be rewards to re-discovery. Suppose that I read Adam Smith and rediscover something great. I should be rewarded for that just as much as if I had come up with the idea myself. Afterall, it has the same effect on the current state of knowledge. However, that will not happen.

Rediscovering is not as prestigious as discovering, because it is not as difficult and does not signal intellectual greatness.

Comment author: komponisto 02 March 2010 04:20:47PM 5 points [-]

One might argue that Newton didn't use any technique to invent calculus, just a very high IQ or some other unusual set of biological traits.

That would be a non-explanation in any case. However high Newton's IQ may have been, his brain was still operating by lawful processes within the physical universe. By the sheer improbability of inventing calculus by chance, there is bound to exist some general technique used by Newton for doing things like inventing calculus, for all that that technique may have been opaque to Newton's own conscious introspection. Perhaps someone else may be able to formulate this technique in explicit generality (in the same way that Newton himself formulated the methods of calculus, already known in special cases, in explicit generality).

"High IQ" probably doesn't mean more than something like high processing speed and copious amounts of RAM. The algorithms (at least in their essence) can still be run, less efficiently, on inferior hardware.

Comment author: Karl_Smith 02 March 2010 08:27:45PM 3 points [-]

I remember reading that one of the most g loaded tests was recognition time. I think the experiment involved flashing letters and timing how fast it took to press the letter on a keyboard. The key correlate was "time until finger left the home keys" which the authors interpreted as the moment you realized what the letter was.

I also heard a case that sensory memory lasts for a short a relatively constant time among humans and that difference in cognitive ability were strongly related to how speed on pushing information into sensory memory. The greater the speed the larger a concept could be pushed in before key elements started to leak out.

Comment author: markrkrebs 02 March 2010 01:05:49AM 2 points [-]

The neurology of human brains and the architecture of modern control systems are remarkably similar, with layers of feedback, and adaptive modelling of the problem space, in addition to the usual dogged iron filing approach to goal seeking. I have worked on a control systems which, as they add (even minor) complexity at higher layers of abstraction, take on eerie behaviors that seem intelligent, within their own small fields of expertise. I don't personally think we'll find anything different or ineffable or more, when we finally understand intelligence, than just layers of control systems.

Consciousness, I hope, is something more and different in kind, and maybe that's what you were really after in the original post, but it's a subjective beast. OTOH, if it is "mere" complex behavior we're after, something measurable and Turing-testable, then intelligence is about to be within our programming grasp any time now.

I LOVE the Romeo reference but a modern piece of software would find its way around the obstacle so quickly as to make my dog look dumb, and maybe Romeo, too.

Comment author: Karl_Smith 02 March 2010 02:35:51AM *  0 points [-]

I had conceived of something like the Turing test but for intelligence period, not just general intelligence.

I wonder if general intelligence is about the domains under which a control system can perform.

I also wonder whether "minds" is a too limiting criteria for the goals of FAI.

Perhaps the goal could be stated as a IUCS. However, we dont know how to build ICUS. So perhaps we can build a control system whose reference point is IUCS. But we don't know that so we build a control system whose reference point is a control system whose reference point . . . until we get to some that we can build. Then we press start.

Maybe this is a more general formulation?

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