Comment author: Viliam_Bur 28 February 2013 09:20:57AM *  5 points [-]

Just a note: Different people have different dates. Probably the worst (but usually the first that comes into mind) kind is the "awkward silence in a romantic restaurant" kind of date. This works best in Hollywood movies, and perhaps for experienced seducers who don't feel any anxiety and can easily manage social situations. (For them, this is good signalling, but that's precisely because it is costly. And I don't speak about the costs of the dinner here.)

As an alternative, I would recommend a "doing something fun together" kind of a date. Something that (you can pretend) you would do alone and have fun doing it, too, but today you altruistically decided to offer her an opportunity to join you and have fun too. (Feel the difference? You are not begging, you are offering.) Do a short internet research: is there any gallery exhibition, or music concert, or public lecture, or whatever interesting in your town the next week? (Or simply ask other people what interesting activity would they recommend you the next week. You don't have to explain why you need it. Maybe there is an information service you can call for exactly this info.) Choose something that interests you, so you will be relaxed, and later you can talk about it. She may also feel less pressure on this kind of a date.

(Beware of other-optimization, et cetera. If romantic dinners work for you, just continue doing what works. Although trying something new in addition probably would not hurt.)

Comment author: Kenoubi 28 February 2013 01:55:10PM 0 points [-]

A friend suggested exactly this before I asked her out. But, uh, I almost never go to galleries or lectures, or concerts unless I really really like the band, and I don't particularly want to change that.

I'm starting to think there may be other activities (video games at home? hikes? board games unfortunately don't really work as an "I'm going to be doing this anyway, join me if you feel like it" thing) that will work for me, though.

Comment author: Viliam_Bur 28 February 2013 08:27:17AM 3 points [-]

You probably already know this, but if your problems are big, you should try a therapist instead of self-help based on an advice from internet. (Although the advice given on this part of internet is usually better than average.)

Doing something is better than doing nothing. Unless you use it as an excuse for not doing more. (As in: "Nothing can fix my problems. What, CBT? No thanks, I tried one exercise based on an advice from internet, and it did not fix my problem. What, visiting a CBT therapist? I am telling you, I already tried an advice from internet, and it did not work.")

Comment author: Kenoubi 28 February 2013 01:51:05PM 2 points [-]

I'm considering therapy. My pattern up to now has been more like read some advice, think "oh that would never work", continue to have problem, mope and complain. Baby steps.

Comment author: jooyous 27 February 2013 08:51:40PM *  2 points [-]

That's good! Because it wouldn't be. =]

Uhh. Is the anxiety bad enough that you're sometimes tempted to dump her first just to not have to deal with it anymore?

Comment author: Kenoubi 27 February 2013 08:54:31PM 4 points [-]

Definitely not. Nothing since we started going out has remotely compared to how hard it was to ask her out the first time, anyway.

Comment author: OrphanWilde 27 February 2013 08:28:01PM 0 points [-]

I didn't offer any particular advice there, only suggested his fears may be rational; but it's an important caveat that merely because a belief is rational doesn't make that belief correct, which I suppose I should have been more clear about.

It sounds to me like the real basis of his concern may be the fact that he's making unreciprocated requests. I have no in-depth knowledge of the situation, so I'm merely hazarding a guess here, but if he's the one arranging all the dates (or whatever), an alleviation of his fears would require her to take a more active role in the relationship. Which may require having a serious discussion admitting his anxieties and the reasons for them. An arrangement where she has to plan every other date, or whatever, might suffice.

Comment author: Kenoubi 27 February 2013 08:53:24PM 5 points [-]

I've experienced a one way relationship before (see http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/gtv/need_some_psychology_advice/8j5k) and I really don't think that's what's going on here. I think she has a perfectly reasonable and appropriate level of interest and involvement concordant with someone she's been dating for two weeks, and I have an unreasonable and inappropriate level due, once again, to my brain chemistry and/or personal history. Calling things off right now would be a terrible idea because 1) I really have no reason to think it won't work and 2) I'm going to have to deal with this getting-too-involved-too-soon thing in ANY relationship, so I really need to learn to manage it.

Yeah, a lot of this is about arranging dates. I was actually thinking about proposing regularly scheduled dates, because it seems like it would stress her out a bit to be responsible for them, just like it does me; ironically the main reason I haven't mentioned this to her yet is that it itself is sort of a big scary request.

Comment author: coffeespoons 27 February 2013 06:18:20PM *  26 points [-]

I've found a CBT* technique useful for overcoming that sort of anxiety (it's called catastrophising). I write down the situation and my prediction in a spreadsheet. An example would be: Situation - at work, I emailed [girl]; she hasn't emailed back yet. Prediction - She is going to break up with me.

Then when you receive an email back, you write down the outcome in a third column, e.g. received email back - we are meeting up tonight.

Looking back over the spreadsheet, you can see how accurate your predictions have been. I expect they tend to be too negative.

*CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) has a strong evidence base.

ETA: I hope that explanation is clear - I'm in a bit of a rush right now! I really wanted to explain it though, as it's had an extremely positive impact on my anxiety levels.

Comment author: Kenoubi 27 February 2013 08:47:11PM 1 point [-]

Thanks! I knew "CBT" would be the answer but I needed a zoom in on a particular technique. I'll try the action / expectation / outcome spreadsheet.

Comment author: Luke_A_Somers 27 February 2013 06:17:54PM 6 points [-]

Have you dated before?

It sounds like these contact points are natural accumulation points for your anxiety - not so much that you're specially anxious about them.

That said, what sorts of things are you requesting? I'd recommend a shift to make suggestions, or invitations where a 'no' answer can very clearly (even to you) be accompanied by 'It's sweet of you to offer, though' rather than 'GTFO'. If requesting something comes up so often that you've noticed the pattern, and they cause an aversion, perhaps you should avoid making so many requests per se?

Comment author: Kenoubi 27 February 2013 08:46:27PM 2 points [-]

I have dated before, but not much. The most significant relationship I've had, I sort of begged her to go out with me (to be fair to myself, I was pretty convincing), moved to another city to be with her, and was "contracting" as a job which really meant sitting around websurfing all day. There was no structure in my life and I couldn't hold things together, and after a few months she decided to break up with me and move 1000+ miles to go back to school. This was a formative experience for me and I'm sure it's related to my current anxieties.

Comment author: jooyous 27 February 2013 08:34:43PM *  19 points [-]

So I think a variant of this approach is useful and a variant of this approach is really harmful. If you say "fuck it, she's not important," you'll be conditioning yourself not to care about her or even actively resent her for "making" you anxious. That way lies a lot of badness.

Nevertheless, I do think it's handy to come to terms with the idea that if she decides to break up with you, then it's not the worst thing in the world. It's an admittedly sucky but manageable state of affairs. You will be a finite amount sadder than you were when you were single! And although you have some influence on her decisions, you have no control over them. So think "I have done everything in my control in this situation. Now I will go play video games/exercise/whatever." This is a more detailed, more accurate, healthier variant of "fuck it, she's just a girl."

Fantastic girls are important! But they're not your whole life! But they are also not unimportant! There's a large range in between those two!

Comment author: Kenoubi 27 February 2013 08:44:10PM 1 point [-]

Weirdly I've been noticing myself having some of these "wouldn't be the worst thing in the world" thoughts spontaneously.

Comment author: shminux 27 February 2013 08:14:37PM 1 point [-]

Not an advice, just wanted to mention that if you are so worried offline, so to speak, some of it is bound to eventually leak through into the together time, and few people like it when the other person comes across as desperate or clingy. Also note that in most cases people get dumped in person, or sometimes over the phone, not by email/text/facebook status update, so the most dangerous time is probably the first few minutes after you meet up. Hope none of that happens to you.

Comment author: Kenoubi 27 February 2013 08:43:20PM 1 point [-]

Yes, the possibility of coming off as clingy is exactly why I haven't discussed this directly with her in person yet.

Comment author: OrphanWilde 27 February 2013 05:52:19PM 0 points [-]

Do you want advice about whether or not your concerns are rational, or advice on how to overcome these concerns?

And by evidence-based advice, do you want studies? Because I think the specific case may be, well, too specific for evidence-based advice to be useful. Unless your anxiety is more generalized, at least.

Comment author: Kenoubi 27 February 2013 06:11:24PM 1 point [-]

I thought I made it clear in my post that I don't think my concerns are rational, but if they are I would like to take whatever steps are available to mitigate them, and not feel so crappy about it either way.

I feel similar anxiety in some other situations, but not very many of them. I find it a bit hard to believe that this problem is so incredibly specific that there is no useful reference class from which to derive advice.

Need some psychology advice

7 Kenoubi 27 February 2013 05:03PM

I started going out with a fantastic girl a couple of weeks ago.  Everything is great, except that whenever I've sent her a text message or email requesting something and haven't received a response yet, I experience significant dysphoric anxiety, fearing that her response will be not just "no" but "no and I don't want to date you any more".  This is due to brain chemistry or personal history, take your pick—either seems like a possible explanation to me.  But there's certainly no evidence supporting the idea that this is likely to happen, nor is the anxiety helping me prevent it or helping me in any other way.

Does anyone have evidence-based advice, or pointers to same, on dealing with this kind of issue?  It is the only splotch on what have otherwise been the best two weeks of my life.

 

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