Comment author: Raw_Power 17 January 2011 01:23:58AM 1 point [-]

I don't get your meaning. Freeing yourself, how do you do that? Why reinvent the wheel? While I was on the straight path to rejecting religion, I could have kept inventing excuses and making stuff up forever, I might even have become a religious expert. I seriously considered becoming a theologian at some point and work to bring out the True Original Islam As Intended By The Prophet (TM) which both the reactionary bigots and the westernized "moderns" were not following. If it hadn't been for people like Yudkowsky who were able to speak to me in a language I shared and point out the massive failings of my system, I would have continued to invent one patch after another, the same way smart, strong people have been doing for centuries.

And I don't see what's wrong with wanting to Save The World, that was the frame that has directed all of my actions ever since I had a concept of what that meant. Of course, Akrasia is a bitch, and Behaving In A Way Such As If All Behaved Like You You Would Like This World Better can be freaking hard, but I've never given up. How is that bad self-psychology?

Comment author: Kobayashi 17 January 2011 01:50:40PM 1 point [-]

"Freeing yourself" happens when you understand why people have religion, when you ask the questions that bring to light the inconsistencies between belief and behavior, etc. It's not about finding The Truth.

Similarly, "saving the world" operates from the arrogant presumption that what you have is inherently better than what they have. It implies an active belief that they should change, not you. Of course, since you are on the right side, they should look up to you, take wisdom from you, etc. It puts you in a position of power relative to them. Having power over one's fellow man and believing that one has a better knowledge about what is right and what is true is the heart of all that is wrong with religion. Freeing oneself from religion is twofold - rejecting the idea that others hold power over you via their relationship to The Truth, and rejecting the idea that you are superior to others by virtue of your relationship to The Truth. Very difficult indeed...

Comment author: Raw_Power 16 January 2011 07:19:49PM *  2 points [-]

This is the first time I've ever written an article that got shot down so violently. I'll admit it is poorly planned and kind of chaotic, but I feel I was misunderstood. While freeing people from religion is a cause I endorse, especially for those that suffer guilt, anguish and pain because of it, rather than those who derive happiness from it, this is not what I am looking for here. What I want to do is to express my points to religious people without coming off as a condescending jerkass Straw Vulcan. And, revently, I have found myself unable to. Despite my best efforts to be respectful and kind, I haven't managed not to hurt theist senstivities. Which baffles me, because I used to be a theist not so long ago, and felt the same pain reading, say, some of Yudkowsky's posts, or anything by Dawkins, and if it weren't for my overwhelming curiosity and the fact that I was almost a born rationalist (something that, as we can see in the Tell Your Rationalist Origin Story thread, is exceedingly and worryingly common for an art that should be accessible to all of humanity) I would have been completely turned off the rationalist project because of its atheistic component, and would have continued to fruitlessly try to be a rational Muslim. And yet I am unable to avoid striking the exact same sour spots I got struck in on my way here.

I don't even remember how that pain felt, but I know it was great, and I want to avoid inflicting it to potential newbies. Ways of avoiding this, is what I am asking for.

Comment author: Kobayashi 16 January 2011 11:36:43PM 0 points [-]

Raw_Power: " While freeing people from religion is a cause I endorse..."

I don't care enough to downvote either your post or your comment, but I will point out that the only people who are ever truly free from religion are the ones who care enough and/or are strong enough to free themselves. Anyone else has merely transferred their allegiance to a different authority. Quit worrying about saving the world; it smacks of a poor understanding of basic human psychology - both with respect to your own motivations and those of others.

Comment author: Kobayashi 06 October 2010 11:28:21PM 13 points [-]

"You can always reach me through my blog!" he panted. "Overpowering Falsehood dot com, the number one site for rational thinking about the future--"

  • Zendegi, by Greg Egan (2010)

Go ahead, down-vote me. It's still paradoxically-awesome to be burned in a Greg Egan novel...

Comment author: Kobayashi 24 May 2010 02:21:30PM 7 points [-]

Email sent some days ago. Comment left for easy karma points. ;)

In response to comment by Kobayashi on Chicago Meetup
Comment author: andrewbreese 21 May 2010 08:08:38PM 3 points [-]

+1 for MADISON!

We should DEFINITELY do a meet-up here. 6hours+ round-trip is not a perfect substitute.

Comment author: Kobayashi 22 May 2010 01:37:11PM 2 points [-]

Perhaps the two fearless leaders could be persuaded to roadtrip up to the Mad City on another day? :) (I'd like to meet them, and I'm not LW-enough to know what a LW meetup should be...) What say?

In response to Chicago Meetup
Comment author: fiddlemath 20 May 2010 10:17:03PM 6 points [-]

This appeals! I might drive from Madison. Would a contingent like to carpool with me?

In response to comment by fiddlemath on Chicago Meetup
Comment author: Kobayashi 21 May 2010 12:17:22PM 4 points [-]

Would definitely consider. Although if there are 3 of us in/around Madison, perhaps the center of gravity for this event might consider shifting a bit N/NW? ;)

Comment author: Kobayashi 17 April 2010 03:44:48PM 4 points [-]

Hi

Comment author: Kobayashi 13 March 2010 02:08:41PM 6 points [-]

Up-voted, with the following caveat...

Feelings are a communication of information. Ex: Feeling happy about losing your job may reflect 1) your knowledge about the stress the job actually held for you, 2) your desire for change (growth, creativity, etc.)...

Feelings can be probed with thoughts in order to ascertain their origin/meaning. To the extent that this is true, I prefer to think of feelings as a condensed form of communication with the 'rational' mind. 'Here's some information you really shouldn't ignore - SLAM! [Insert feeling.]'

Comment author: Kobayashi 28 February 2010 02:45:45PM *  1 point [-]

(So... html tags don't appear to work in the less wrong comment section. Too tired to find out what DOES work.)

<quote>After all, if someone you know is planning to quit her job and move to Alaska because her horoscope told her that Tauruses need more spontaneity, you shouldn't tell her to stay because <i>she's actually an Aries</i>. You tell her to stay because astrology is provably bogus.</quote>

(snort) If you didn't care about the truth value of what you were telling her as much as you cared about <i>getting her to change her behavior</i>, you might very well choose to exert influence on her <i>from within her belief system</i>. It invokes less resistance on her part than does trying to tear apart the structure of something she places so much faith in. Provided you could convince her that she was actually an Aries and that this would somehow negate her reasons for moving, you might have a shorter, less-painful battle on your hands with respect to her plans to move than you would if you had to take on the whole system of astrology - it's history, it's advocates, the famous people who've believed in it, etc.

Mind you, this is only a temporary fix until the next time she wants to do something stupid as a result of what the 'stars' tell her, but if you don't have the time for a full-blown de-bunking/brainwashing, it might behoove you to be able to exert influence from <i>within</i> the target belief system.

Comment author: Kobayashi 18 January 2010 02:06:03PM 3 points [-]

I like the last bit about status, and would add the following...

Kobayashi's Paradox #1: The more you know about one thing, the more you will be expected to know about everything. However, the more you know about one thing, the less you probably actually know about everything else.

Kobayashi's Paradox #2: Status (or your perception of your own status) is inversely proportional to the amount of productive, creative work you will actually get done. (This suggests that perceptions of status do not update as quickly as they should, or are not based upon a current assessment of the person's worth/productivity.) If you need/want to get work done, shun the distractions of 'status'.

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