Comment author: Quirinus 11 April 2012 05:57:17AM *  3 points [-]

A problem with Quirrell's heroic alter ego being Tom Riddle, even if the only ones who know Tom Riddle is Voldemort are the inner circle of the Order of the Phoenix, is, why wouldn't madam Bones tell Dumbledore that Tom Riddle is currently inhabiting Quirrell's body?

Quirrell said that he "reported to the headmaster" by which I interpret Dumbledore wants to know in what ways the defense professor was involved in this whole debacle, from which we can infer that he will have or has had Bones report to him as well. The fact that a war hero that was an incredibly powerful wizard as well and led forces against death eaters in various occasions is inhabiting the body of your defense proffesor is not trivial. And then Quirrell also outright TELLS Bones that Dumbledore doesn't know his identity, so we can be sure that Amelia will be reporting that this alleged hero, whatever his identity is, is currently posing as professor Quirrell.

I had assumed before that Dumbledore knew Quirrell's identity, that perhaps he was told that upon his travels after his graduation, Quirinus Quirrell had stumbled upon an ancient tomb containing the soul of a powerful and clever dark wizard, and this spirit had taken possession of Quirrell's body. Dumbledore, accepting this, agrees to let him teach at Hogwarts given that he will be able to teach things to his students few other wizards will be able to. Or something along those lines.

But not before a warning the staff about his nature and making sure things don't get too freaky. From chapter 15:

"Now repeat after me," said Professor McGonagall. (...)

"Even if the current Defense Professor at Hogwarts tells me that a Transfiguration is safe, and even if I see the Defense Professor do it and nothing bad seems to happen, I will not try it myself."

After all, they've had all sorts of wacko defense professors already. From chapter 70:

"My goodness," said Penelope Clearwater. "I think that's the most overtly evil Defense Professor we've ever had."

Professor McGonagall coughed warningly, and the Head Boy said, "You weren't around for Professor Barney," which made several people twitch.

So it's just another year at defense class.

But now it turns out Dumbledore doesn't know his identity? Or does he actually know it and it turns this fabricated heroic identity is not Tom Riddle? If he actually doesn't know, what is he playing at, hiring some incredibly powerful wizard from Merlin knows where who is obviously untrustworthy and likes to plot an awful lot? Dumbledore at one point states the three most powerful wizards in the school are him, Snape, and Professor Quirrell.

And the worst thing is that it actually does fit if the slytherin hero who rose against the death eaters and disappeared suddenly happened to be Riddle.

-Born in 1926

-Sorted into Slytherin

-People speaking of him as the next Dumbledore

-Likes to wander off in Albania

-Of noble house descent

I'm assuming that given how the politics and nobility work in MoR, House Gaunt didn't lose all their gold, or at least not in the same fashion as in canon given that there is probably some sort of convenient system to prevent this. But then again, House Potter did just go broke. And we are told that his grandmother is the Lady of his House. We do never see Merope's mother in canon; so I'm assuming that if the differences from canon are enough to keep House Gaunt from poverty, perhaps it's not all that strange if her mother is alive as well. However, it was Riddle's grandfather, not grandmather, who bore the name of Gaunt. If he died, would her wife inherit his title? I'm thinking not. Or perhaps yes if she was of noble ancestry herself, which is a given considering we are talking about someone who married a Gaunt. And if this new heroic figure wasn't Tom Riddle, then can we assume it was an actual heroic person and Voldemort it taking advantage of his story to cover his usage of Quirrell's body? After all, they were born in the same year, and I can't imagine Riddle manipulating another person since he was eleven years old into being Voldemort's nemesis for a huge social experiment in years to come. Or could he?

I notice I am terribly confused.

And Quirrell does speak about playing the two sides in different occasions, and he did sound to me like he was talking about a social experiment when talking to Hermione, on which he was a leader in both sides of the conflict, and whose outcome he did not expect:

Professor Quirrell shook his head as though in bemusement. "And it was the strangest thing - the Dark Wizard, that man's dread nemesis - why, those who served him leapt eagerly to their tasks. The Dark Wizard grew crueler toward his followers, and they followed him all the more. Men fought for the chance to serve him, even as those whose lives depended on that other man made free to render his life difficult... I could not understand it, Miss Granger."

Comment author: LucasSloan 11 April 2012 06:16:19AM 4 points [-]

It seems perfectly in keeping with the foresight and planning we've seen from Quirrell that he killed off a classmate soon after Hogwarts in the event that he needed an identity to assume later. It seems equally plausible that Quirrell would have tried, to the extent he could do so costlessly, play a person on both sides of the conflict he created. It is worth noting that this supposed hero used Avada Kedavra on the Death Eaters, a signature of Quirrell. This hero also failed to kill Belatrix Black, a major pawn of the other side. I do not think that the name of this supposed hero is Riddle, given that Dumbledore knows that Voldemort and Riddle are one and the same, but it seems very likely that Quirrell was playing this man.

Comment author: [deleted] 05 April 2012 02:06:40PM 0 points [-]

The existence of other signals your brain simply doesn't process doesn't shift your prior at all?

That doesn't seem strictly relevant. Other signals might lead me to believe that there are thoughts I don't think (but I accepted that already), not thoughts I can't think. How could I recognize such a thing as a thought? After all, while every thought is a brain signal, not every brain signal is a thought: animals have lots of brain signals, but no thoughts.

In response to comment by [deleted] on Rationality Quotes April 2012
Comment author: LucasSloan 05 April 2012 08:36:07PM 1 point [-]

What is the difference between a thought you can't think and one you don't think?

Comment author: smk 04 April 2012 09:08:45PM 6 points [-]

So Draco will have to build political power without the benefit of growing up in Slytherin. I wonder if Lucius will try to influence other families to pull their kids out of Hogwarts too?

Comment author: LucasSloan 05 April 2012 01:40:25AM 5 points [-]

Well, almost certainly Crabbe and Goyle are pulling out too.

Comment author: gjm 04 April 2012 01:11:41PM 2 points [-]

Being Harry's friend already made you a target, hence what happened to Draco and Hermione.

Comment author: LucasSloan 04 April 2012 01:27:20PM 9 points [-]

True, but there was a ceasefire in place regarding friends and family and such. That's what accepting the death of Aberforth, and the murder of Narcissa were about. All of the players anyone knew about had kept to the truce since then.

Comment author: thelittledoctor 04 April 2012 06:51:51AM 3 points [-]

Well, if his trick for deactivating other wizards' patronuses (patronii?) works, he basically has an unblockable army of instant-death assassins, the only defense against which would be Apparition... That's a pretty good ultimate weapon in a Mutually Assured Destruction sense. And as long as we're discussing mutually assured destruction, there seems little doubt that Harry would be able to transfigure nuclear weaponry. Or botulinum toxin (of which it would take an appallingly small amount to kill every human on Earth). Etc, etc. Harry does not lack for access to Ultimate Weapons.

Comment author: LucasSloan 04 April 2012 07:03:28AM 15 points [-]

He does have the ability to turn the world into a lake of fire, true. All powerful wizards have this ability and it is implied that every magical power in the world would turn against him if he tried anything that foolish. He has a giant hammer which he dare not use, if only because he's not evil. Also, he is still amazingly vulnerable to almost any adult wizard who wishes him ill - powerful weaponry doesn't imply a powerful defense. He might have been able to assassinate every member of the Wizengamot, but I doubt he would have survived the attempt. If it comes to open warfare he's toast, and his stunt made it much more likely that someone would decide he had stepped over the threshold of open warfare. He's safe for now at Hogwarts, but it was still stupid.

The first item was "I will not go around provoking strong, vicious enemies"

Good advice, and advice Harry failed to follow.

Comment author: LucasSloan 04 April 2012 03:10:28AM 7 points [-]

How much of the cost of saving Hermione was announcing that Harry responds to blackmail? He made his entrance onto the stage of players in a way that cannot endear him to any of the others. No matter what he did, he would antagonize Lucius, but he demonstrated an extreme disrespect for the rules of the game and preserving the existing order is in the interests of all the players. Not to mention, he implicitly declared challenge to the ministry of magic. If he actually had the power that Lucius believes he does, he might get away with that, but he cannot survive for long against the Aurors. As it stands all that is keeping him safe is Dumbledore, shock and bluff.

I rather expect the first of those to disappear sometime in the story. I have no idea how General Chaos can develop an ultimate weapon powerful enough to stand off the nation of Britain.

On the other side of the coin, Hermione is extremely valuable. She's almost the 1st or 2nd best duelist in 1st year and her aid probably doubles Harry's ability to do research on magic. Unfortunately for Harry, while those skills would be decisive if he could go hide and research for a few years, I doubt that he'll get the time.

Comment author: Spurlock 02 April 2012 06:06:47AM *  0 points [-]

In all seriousness though, should we take this

The Defense Professor - Hat-and-Cloak, Quirrell, Voldemort - raised his wand

As Word of God that Quirrell is H&C? Or just a trick within a trick?

Comment author: LucasSloan 02 April 2012 06:10:43AM *  2 points [-]

Definitely. At least for the next 42 minutes.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 29 March 2012 02:28:40AM 1 point [-]

Wow, I'd totally forgotten where I got that from.

But in this particular case, it's deserved, considering that a certain idea I first encountered in PKH is an element of HPMOR.

(You probably don't want to read through PKH trying to figure it out. No, seriously, it's figureable from the main text and PKH isn't going to help much.)

Comment author: LucasSloan 30 March 2012 03:57:48AM 0 points [-]

No, seriously, it's figureable from the main text and PKH isn't going to help much.

Jryy vg'f rvgure gung Uneel'f qnexfvqr vf gur sentzrag bs Ibyqrzbeg'f fbhy be gung Qhzoyrqber'f rivy.

Comment author: Locke 28 March 2012 02:28:20AM 24 points [-]

Five days was too long, IMO. If we only had 24 hours I would have enjoyed it much more.

Comment author: LucasSloan 28 March 2012 04:58:54AM 6 points [-]

Agreed. I initially felt a lot of tension as to the answer, and it didn't fade upon a day or two's speculation, but I did not feel that tension when I read the chapter. I definitely think that a wait over major cliffhangers is indicated, but a long one (even 5 days) cannot sustain the tension.

Comment author: shminux 28 March 2012 04:43:00AM *  0 points [-]

One hundred points to Gryffindor doesn't seem to cut it.

-100? She just doesn't know when to talk and when to keep her mouth shut.

Comment author: LucasSloan 28 March 2012 04:49:14AM 7 points [-]

Sure, but that's a Slytherin virtue.

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