Comment author: Clarity 17 December 2015 02:45:34PM 1 point [-]

Incredible. Could you consider writing up a how to guide for others who want to make a Value Management System, with some tips and tricks?

Comment author: Michael_Keshick 24 December 2015 06:51:34PM 1 point [-]

I'm reviewing the material that inspired me into this line of action, and was intending to post a more concise and coherent intro for the site. I expect it to be nearly all derived from other material that can be found on this site. I'm eager to for feedback, but it will have to wait!

Comment author: ScottL 12 December 2015 11:53:20PM *  1 point [-]

This sounds awesome and it looks like it is helping you to become less wrong. I have a couple questions. In summary, the idea that it is implemented with word documents sounds cumbersome to me. I wonder if there is a better way to do it:

  • have you looked into any apps that could do what you are doing with a collection of word documents? If you have, then what is different about your system than the other existing apps.
  • What would a perfect app implementation be of your Value management system?
  • have you done much research to create this system because it sounds like the above would be good for a main post if you have. I would like to know about what your set of filters are and what you mean by the framework to set up more frameworks.
Comment author: Michael_Keshick 14 December 2015 12:29:11AM 2 points [-]

I quite agree that it is cumbersome; the initial editing of the process isn't even finished to my satisfaction. To tell the truth, my initial intuition when I started this project was that the apps present struck me as auxiliary sorts of systems. But I didn't bother looking around for larger software. For shame : /

To answer the bullets:

  • As of today, yes. Nothing I've come across can supplant the whole framework, though. After searching "Life management apps", "Goal management apps", checking CFARs homepage, and the Power Tools listed here, these are some things that may see integration (not all apps); Evernote, MyLifeOrganized, Org-mode, Nozbe, Irunurun, TakeOnIt. I'm not sure how to encapsulate the difference between my system and apps. Perhaps it is just larger? There are reflective elements, and mechanics for dissolving assumptions to double check if an intuition can carry through to action, for example.

  • I don't think it would be a single app, and it would require a couple to be able to talk to each other. I suspect it would be heavily reliant upon the user, but now we are getting in over my current understanding of what such a system may look like. I have idly wondered if the concept could be embedded into software, however. I have no knowledge of programming.

  • I have not done formal and controlled construction of the concepts behind my system. It is based off of intuition; however, I have read the content on this site, and I suspect once I start an overview of where all my knowledge comes from it will crystallize into something that may be transferable for other's use. This is not where I had planned on going, and early on I was already noticing many inferences I had packed into formulating mechanics. There is a little note somewhere that suggests I should make my system informative enough that you could step into it from any level of education. Daydreams for later.

The prompts are basically coherence, priority, time, effort, action, reward, routine, balance, and peer-review. All prompts must note uncertainty, and any changes to content, as well as when behavior deviates from content and for what reason, etc.

The framework to make frameworks bit is actually perhaps specific to myself; I’m a very set-up-organized-systems sort of person, and considering things through this system very easily produces methods of approach that look similar. That’s all.

After the whole thing was “done” I had planned to submit it to Lesswrong with several example values of various sizes. I suspect it will be handily remade at that point. Very exciting to be this far along. :)

Comment author: Tem42 12 December 2015 12:36:00AM 2 points [-]

Is the question now posed in the main post a respectable start?

The post as it now stands needs some serious proofreading.

What sorts of questions could someone ask to learn the most about failure?

LessWrong is likely to focus on cognitive biases, and this is a good place to start. I assume that you have already read some on the subject, but if not, we have a lot on site, and there are some good books -- for example, The Invisible Gorilla and Mistakes Were Made. Everyone will have a different list of recommended reading, but I don't know if that is the sort of info dump you are looking for.

I think that your question may be too general. Being more specific will almost surely give you more useful responses.

I suspect that your best bet would be to notice specific sub-optimal outcomes in your life, and then ask knowledgeable people (which may include us) for thoughts and information. If you have access to a trustworthy person who will give honest and detailed feedback, you might ask them to observe you in completing some process (or better, multiple processes) and take notes on any thoughts they have regarding your actions -- things you do differently, things you do wrong, things that you do slower than most people, etc. They will probably notice some things that you do not. They may not know how to help you change, but that doesn't make their information any less valuable.

Comment author: Michael_Keshick 12 December 2015 07:07:20AM 0 points [-]

Thank you for the feedback. This was a surprisingly useful line of interaction.

The first thing it did was make me remember that inferential gaps take caution at the very least to cross. Another way I failed was in not carrying out my empathetic modules of people far enough; I knew people would realize what I was after was large and vague, but then trailed off into assuming people would actually want to rattle off in some randomly chosen direction available to them. Taken on iota more of a step and I can feel how annoying such a prompt is.

And then I recalled something about A.I. safety; something along the lines of not being able to specify all the ways we don’t want an AI (genie?) to act; the nature of value or goal specification is too exclusive to approach from that direction efficiently. Reflection to see if I can be coherent about his will have to happen later.

As of this moment (2 am) it is unattractive to see if I am on to something or not. Thank you once more for the feedback. It feels like I’ve gained valuable responses.

Comment author: ChristianKl 11 December 2015 10:26:10PM 1 point [-]

There's still no question in the original post. Questions are quite useful for exploring a new topic of interest. You might get some answers by getting seeking an info dumb but a concrete question would likely produce better discussion. It would also help you focus yourself.

Comment author: Michael_Keshick 11 December 2015 11:03:37PM *  0 points [-]

I like this prompt, and it so happens I have a proper response that fits.

I've seen people talk of noticing failure, but thankfully it having been a gentle one, they managed to make something of it. Sometimes people speak or write as if their may be some underlying method to be mined away from luck.

While planning actions, is it a good heuristic to attempt action so as a fall would not break legs, so to speak?

Well look at that you've helped me dissolve a question into a form that has an obvious answer. This is both nice (less clutter), and partly the reason I was asking for a dump. I'm trying to stumble across gaps in my understanding, not necessarily tangles (although again, thank you).

I suppose I expect to de-tangle my knowledge of this subject as I review anything possibly relevant. I just thought to ask here in conjunction with said review.

I'm trying to be as comprehensive as possible, which means I should ask the obvious first. Is the question now posed in the main post a respectable start?

Comment author: Gram_Stone 11 December 2015 06:02:00PM 3 points [-]

As part of my foundational work on how I function

I spent a long time coming up with theories about how I work and why, and it was a great waste of time. I now find it a lot more reliable to base my actions on generalizations about most or all humans, rather than coming up with idiosyncratic theories about myself. Idiosyncratic theories are likely to be based in introspection, which is notoriously unreliable and which humans are known for systematically overvaluing. (See introspection illusion.) I've found that a good rule of thumb is: Don't use an idiosyncratic theory unless you also would've generated that theory about someone else by observing their current behavior and having knowledge of their past behavior. And even when idiosyncratic theories seem to work, they more likely work because they're also explainable using the aforementioned generalizations.

Comment author: Michael_Keshick 11 December 2015 07:53:00PM *  0 points [-]

This was a very useful topic to bring to the conversation, but I think I may have framed what I had in mind poorly. Did the edit clarify?

Comment author: ChristianKl 11 December 2015 04:26:58PM 0 points [-]

I decided to ask Lesswrong about failure

Your post contains no question at the moment. Specifying questions is useful for having discussions.

Comment author: Michael_Keshick 11 December 2015 07:51:43PM 0 points [-]

Thank you for pointing out my error. Did my editing clear up said issue?

Comment author: Michael_Keshick 11 December 2015 03:31:21PM *  0 points [-]

So I’m attempting to adopt practices that will bring me closer to generally strategic behavior. I am also interested specifically in strategic/efficient studying. To that end I would like as much of an info dump as possible on the topic on failure.

This can include avoiding failure, preparing for failure even when avoiding it, how to notice when you are failing, and perhaps how to fail gracefully (as possible). I realize there is overlap/confusion here; I was simply rattling of primers for you to consider.

Please err on the side of inclusivity. I am not starting from a state of complete ignorance (the sequences can be turned towards my concerns handily), but best be safe.

Thank you for your help! :)

Edited for clarification, I hope.

Also for starts: What sorts of questions could someone ask to learn the most about failure?

Comment author: Michael_Keshick 10 December 2015 06:30:50PM *  3 points [-]

tldr; I’ve created a simple value management system with reflective elements to begin overhauling my previous self, and it’s going great! Yahoo!

Context: I was a person with various non-productive behaviors who was highly compassionate, and luckily noticed Less Wrong. Took a long time to make what didn’t feel like progress; but recently I’ve been in a better state of mind, and decided to initiate a system to overhaul myself with.

Thus I created what I indulgently call my Value Management System. Very fancy for a collection of Word Documents on my desktop, ho-ho! Firstly; the whole system dates and records everything, so I can track my progress reliably. There are also procedures for watching performance of everything, and making changes when appropriate (this also dated/recorded of course). First step to pumping actionable values out of myself is the Wish List, which has a short list of whimsical maybe-later things, as well as a more elaborate list of values that are not already implemented (and that I’m not allowed to act on in a complex fashion). The list uses a set of filters to force me to be coherent about a given desire, and to ensure it is reliably actionable and safe. The values are moved to either a Main or Local document depending on my time estimate. So now I have a system for managing myself in a clear and concise fashion! This is a considerable improvement for someone who had the sorts of issues I did. Some of the procedures are becoming second-nature, slowly, and I hope this will greatly speed up my attempts to get close to auto-strategic movement.

Things accomplished with system: Moved to town, which boosted productivity and provided internet. Noticed several issues with values and goals that were handily taken care of. Provided framework to set up more frameworks, like Cognitive Trigger Training, and study frameworks for when I decide what to do with myself.

I am so very excited to have this up and running; a major aspect is not losing track of values and actions, thusly fumbling about horribly, gehh. The only drawback I’ve encountered is trying to apply everything through the system. Most things are nearly complete, however, and once the bulk of my foundations are down things will become less congested.