Comment author: orthonormal 06 July 2009 06:26:55PM *  3 points [-]

I kind of go into paralyzing anxiety whenever I think about The Future.

Incidentally, saying this isn't an excuse here! You need to make the analysis and correction of this a high priority if you have any strong preferences about your life in the future. Namely, try to figure out why this causes you anxiety, and don't just stop at listing the reasons that make rational sense. I believe you'll find you have some strong desire to avoid changing some aspect of your current life, but it may be one you're not proud of being motivated by— and it is probably something which isn't incompatible with future planning once you acknowledge it.

(Holy Feynman, I sound just like PJ!)

EDIT Of course, YMMV. But have you tried some version of respectfully interrogating your anxiety?

Comment author: MineCanary 06 July 2009 06:43:12PM 5 points [-]

No, I think this is good. I do need to confront these things more.

I developed a mode of procrastination and associated depression and anxiety that consumed most of my time for four or more years. I resist making changes in part because when I start doing anything, I get anxious about all the other things I think I SHOULD be doing, which is certainly irrational because I don't get attend to all of them better simply by not attending to one of them, but I've also developed extreme laziness. It's hard to get out of bed because for a long time I was UNABLE to get out of bed and I stopped expecting that from myself; it's hard to work on math or anything like that because for a long time my anxiety completely stopped me from it; and so on--I'm still trying to claw myself out of that vicious cycle.

I'm afraid to look into potential future opportunities because I'm afraid I won't qualify or won't be competent enough--I'm looking at my past performance record and the part that's most real to me, the part where I spent most of my day (and still do) almost every day engaged in an activity I would characterize as simply "not doing X" where X is any activity I thought would improve my life or fulfill an obligation. I'm also afraid to "tie myself down" because of opportunity cost--not to myself but to whoever else I might be able to help by my choice of occupation. I'm intensely aware of the sorts of suffering that are invisible in the everyday lives of most people in our society, and I know that I need to resolve that awareness by dedicating myself to something that will make a real and necessary difference, and I'm not sure how "far" away from commonly accepted cultural values my personal values demand me to go. I'm afraid of making a choice that's polluted by fear. And so on.

But, yeah, it helps to keep bringing it into focus. The world looks DIFFERENT as your mental health changes.

Comment author: gworley 06 July 2009 06:15:37PM 1 point [-]

This is very likely the sort of thing that was actually going on in my brain, although it's not what it felt like from the inside. Thanks for pointing this out.

Comment author: MineCanary 06 July 2009 06:29:24PM 0 points [-]

You're welcome. ^_^

Of course, a variety of alternative scenarios would also seem plausible as insights, but it did seem very much like you were refocusing from a "I do this because this is who I am and this is what I do" position to one of "I do this because this will help me achieve a goal"--and with that rationality becomes more important. I was trying to understand your perspective that this was the result of acquiring thinking skills: you first acquired the ability and habit of questioning the motivations of the authorities who promoted schooling and certain tasks in school, and then you acquired the ability and habit of asking what you really wanted to do regardless of the way things are supposed to work.

Comment author: MineCanary 06 July 2009 06:18:17PM 2 points [-]

"But if today is really in honor of a hundred children murdered in war," he said, "is today a day for a thrilling show?"

"The answer is yes, on one condition: that we, the celebrants, are working consciously and tirelessly to reduce the stupidity and viciousness of ourselves and of all mankind."

--Cat's Cradle, Kurt Vonnegut

Comment author: orthonormal 06 July 2009 05:52:33PM 2 points [-]

Better experiences are out there; is it too late for you to look into transfers?

Given the significant number of college students who seem to be around here, it might be good to have a thread on where rationality-friendly college cultures can be found.

Comment author: MineCanary 06 July 2009 06:05:30PM -1 points [-]

I am afraid about the whole money thing. I have heard that you can't get scholarships if you're a transfer student. I have not looked into it, though. I kind of go into paralyzing anxiety whenever I think about The Future.

But, yeah, I think that would be a great idea, if we could pool our knowledge! My college is great for a number of things: Mainly, it's impossible to fail no matter what you do, and you can have hours-long conversations with professors whenever you run into one, and everyone's pretty much unconditionally supportive, which is a good thing if all that takes a lower priority to actually learning or engaging in anything vaguely intellectual. I know there's review sites out there for colleges, but you'd probably have to dig to find a "rationally-oriented culture" rating.

It's funny, though, I just realized that if you want to talk to anyone vaguely interesting here, you generally have to put up with some pseudoscientific belief of theirs. Ah, Utah: Everyone's a Mormon or a pagan. (Or a Catholic who believes that quantum physics somehow supports their faith, or an agnostic/atheist/ex-Christian who believes scientific fields are about on par with literary criticism, and so on.)

Oh, how I wish I'd had enough mental health to investigate and apply to colleges my senior year of high school instead choosing a default last-minute option.

Comment author: MineCanary 06 July 2009 05:54:33PM -1 points [-]

I don't think I know enough to do one of these, but I was googling around searching for a suitable video and came across the statement (it turned out to be in a comment thread, but still):

"Global warming is a libtard fairy tale like evolution, solar power and gay marriage."

Off-topic, yes, but I felt the need to share.

Comment author: mr_t 06 July 2009 05:23:12PM 2 points [-]

As someone who just finished qualifying exams for a PhD program (in history), I agree with your assessment somewhat. However, I wonder if you're not too quickly discounting their value. You might consider the value of studying material for the exams. You may end up seeing old ideas in a new light and may find your notes useful years down the line for teaching.

Comment author: MineCanary 06 July 2009 05:32:48PM 1 point [-]

Seconded.

Even though better pedagogies might exist--that, say, require you to do the memorization at the same time as doing something that involves more in-depth thinking and learning--you have to be there and do the exams anyway, so it's best to see them in a positive light, which will hopefully increase both your ability to pass and your ability to get something out of them. The information IS a valuable tool, and seeing it as such will help you use it.

And, certainly, rote studying is FAR better than coasting by on one's enormous intellect--at least, if one doesn't have anything better to do.

Comment author: orthonormal 06 July 2009 05:24:38PM 1 point [-]

You can supplement a good education with outside reading. I suppose I was lucky to have a college experience that encouraged grounded rational argument and intellectual curiosity, but it's not impossible.

(University of Chicago, incidentally. I think that many of the people here would have flourished in that culture much more than they did elsewhere.)

Comment author: MineCanary 06 July 2009 05:28:24PM 1 point [-]

I am currently in a college where my discussions with the more intellectually-alive people have sometimes involved someone attempting to refute evolution by saying, "But if evolution were true, we'd have humans coming out of the jungle!"

The vast majority just sit there with glazed eyes. High school was more challenging.

Comment author: Z_M_Davis 06 July 2009 04:46:13PM 6 points [-]

Not because they said anything that made me feel as though I shouldn't try, but because they made it painfully obvious that the whole point of school isn't really learning, and in some cases school's attempt to make it appear as though learning is going on actually hurts your ability to really learn.

From time to time I wonder what proportion of this community is composed of incredibly bitter autodidacts. Five percent? Forty-five percent?

Comment author: MineCanary 06 July 2009 05:16:49PM 1 point [-]

wrinkles forehead in mock-puzzled look

We're literate. Is there any other way to become literate?

Comment author: MineCanary 06 July 2009 05:13:59PM 11 points [-]

Wouldn't this be more of an identity thing?

Before, your motivation to do well in school was to Be a Smart Person. Smart possibly replaced by competent, studious, curious, etc. Since socialization had taught you that those who do well in and go far in academics are Smart People, your motivation was fine. You had trouble in high school in part because you didn't think they were helping you Be a Smart Person, but you didn't come to see the goals of the educational system as opposite your own.

But then you did. You thought, "The stated role of graduate school is to make Smart People, I know that's not what they're doing, now I have no assurance that merely by being a student I am Being a Smart Person--and I'm afraid that merely by being a student I am making myself WORSE at Being a Smart Person," so you were extremely uncomfortable.

I don't know, I think there's a fairly common tendency to see what one is asked of by society as being in harmony with one's own goals and well-being. I would assume that's a big part of how people maintain their social lives--going to church because it's what their community does and they've never questioned it, shaving their body hair and wearing make-up and torturous clothes if they're women, trying to Be the way they're supposed to be. But then you realized that a major part of the socially-required aspect of your life conflicted with your deeper values of learning and truth and competence, and you had to restructure your life to stop merely Being and instead see yourself as someone who is DOING something for a particular reason that can't just be taken whole from society but actually has to be figured out.

Comment author: Roko 05 July 2009 06:44:15PM 3 points [-]

I'd read through the technobabble in 6 and I suspect a large number of other people would too. (You only need high school chemistry.)

ROFL... no way. I personally fooled a nurse into signing a petition against dihydrogen monoxide.

people are Stupider Than You Realize

In response to comment by Roko on Not Technically Lying
Comment author: MineCanary 06 July 2009 01:06:44AM -1 points [-]

I would imagine that's not a case of stupidity, but of the brain working in a way that's (usually, more or less) efficient. Instead of analyzing the specific words you're using, the nurse, who has no reason not to trust you, analyzes the content of what you're saying, the urgency and manner with which you're presenting the evidence against this chemical that's just "blahblahblah" to the brain.

This is a way of filtering out irrelevant content and only paying attention to what is (likely) to be relevant. I had a related problem when learning to drive--my brain doesn't instantly process "right" or "left" as belonging to the specified direction, but when the instructor or person giving the test bellowed a word at me, I knew to turn and turned whichever way made more sense to me in context--which wasn't always the right decision. I don't think everyone has this thinking style, as evidenced by my instructor's irritation with me, but it's certainly not overall a bad one--in general, it's probably better to pay attention to information from the environment when operating heavy machinery, to the emotional content of a social situation rather than to etymological clues, and so on.

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