If consciousness is defined by referring solely to behavior (which may well be reasonable, but is itself an assumption) then yes, it is true that something that behaves exactly like a human will be conscious IFF humans are conscious.

Thanx! This underscores the importance of our definitions. A hypothesis is an assumption or assumptions and the presenter needs to make their case, by defining the terms that are crucial to their hypothesis.

But what we are trying to ask, at the high level, is whether there is something coherent in conceptspace that partitions objects into "conscious" and "unconscious" in something that resembles what we understand when we talk about "consciousness," and then whether it applies to the GLUT.

A moving target is more difficult to hit than a stationary one! When we used human cells for conscious in referring to a GLUT, we instantly saw that we could throw that definition out. Now we can quickly move on to the next definition. To me conceptspace sounds like climbing the "what if" tree. I could spend all day going from branch to branch and never find the banana. I'll re-read those links you provided, in case I misunderstood what they are saying.

ADDED: I'm stuck in Thingspace when talking science and go to conceptspace when I am writing music or painting.

If you don't know for sure what consciousness is, you define it as best you can, and proceed forward to see if your hypothesis is rational and that the theory is possible. If you define conscious as made of cells, then everyone knows right away a GLUT is not conscious (that is, if it is not made of cells) by YOUR def. and tells you, you are being irrational, please go back to the drawing board!

If my goal is to talk about something with a particular definition, then I prefer not to use an existing word to refer to it when that word doesn't refer unambiguously to the definition I have in mind. That just leads to confusing conversations. I'd rather just make up a new term to go with my new made-up definition and talk about that.

Well, casual conversation is not the same as using key terms (or words) in a scientific hypothesis, so that's a different subject, but new terms to define new ideas is fine if it's your hypothesis. In conversation, new definitions for old words would be confusing and defining old words in a new way could be confusing as well. That's not what I am saying.

Words can have multiple meanings and the dictionary gives the most popular usages. If we are appealing to the popular use then we still need to define the word. At any rate, whatever key terms that we use in our hypothesis must be precise, unambiguous, non circular, non-contradictory and used consistently throughout our presentation.

Conversely, if my goal is to use the word "consciousness" in a way that respects the existing usage of the term, coming up with an arbitrary definition that is unambiguous and non-contradictory but doesn't respect that existing usage won't quite accomplish that.

I'm saying it is important what EY meant by consciousness. If the person I quoted says we don't know what it is.....then that person doesn't know what the existing usage of the word is, or it is not well defined.

Anyways, why would you use a poor choice of a referent?

I'd like to hear it! Even if I am the brunt of the joke.

OK, thanx! but can you answer this? Are amplitude configurations the boundries in my analogy?

Thanx! Desrtopa.

I have to relate everything to what I already know, which is difficult because of practically zero math background. Can we do this w/o math? Ultimately we are leading up to higher dimensions, right?

Let's see if I have a clue visually:

The point is, I am trying to understand certain concepts and then put them into terms that I can relate to. Any similarity to actual theories or reality is purely coincidental.

I like to (mis)use the terms interference wave pattern and surface tension. When looking at a wooden table, we see where the molecules in the surface of the table meet with the molecules of air surrounding it. We see the 'interference wave pattern' not the air or the wood molecules. Now extend the analogy to dimensions. Where two dimensions intersect, another dimension (a surface tension) 'arises'. Each dimension itself, the surface tension between two others.

If we step through the transition of a dimensionless point into a three dimensional sphere we see that each dimension is 'contained' within the other. A point merges into other points, which come together to form a line, which join with other lines to form a plane, which may be the surface of a sphere.

The line is the surface tension between the point and the plane. The plane is the surface tension between the sphere and the line. The sphere is the surface tension between the plane and space-time. Now replace surface tension with the term boundary.

The three spatial directions (XYZ) and Time combine to form space-time (the fourth dimension). Up/down, left/right and forward/back and joins with time, which is movement through space, and along with other dimensions interfaces with both the macro scale of planets and galaxies and in the nowuseeit/nowudon't micro scale of Quantum incomprehensibleness.

Or as a friend told me:

"The real universe is "4-D expanding through an 11-D manifold"- and all of this makes sense when you understand: "It's a wrapped, temporal-volumetric expansion."-Cyberia

And as S. Hawking says:

"It seems we may live on a 3-brane--a four dimensional (three space + one time) surface that is the boundary of a five dimensional region, with the remaining three dimensions curled up very small. The state of the world on a brane encodes what is happening in the five dimensional region."

So can you relate the zero to the point to the curve, etc. to amplitudes and configurations for me?